Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
to replace versus to substitute
English answer:
See explanation
Added to glossary by
Anton Baer
Jan 28, 2009 22:48
15 yrs ago
20 viewers *
English term
to replace versus to substitute
English
Social Sciences
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
I'm editing a Spanish native speaker, who has written a book in English. I'm embarrassed but in a comment, I can't seem to explain why her wording is wrong in this sentence:
Barbasco first became a plant of interest in the late 1940s when it substituted another, dioscorea or cabeza de negro, ...
I know it should be "when it replaced another" but why? TIA!
Barbasco first became a plant of interest in the late 1940s when it substituted another, dioscorea or cabeza de negro, ...
I know it should be "when it replaced another" but why? TIA!
Change log
Feb 11, 2009 15:04: Anton Baer Created KOG entry
Responses
+8
8 mins
Selected
See explanation
It depends. Does barbasco "substitute for" dioscorea in a process of some kind? "To substitute for" means the replacement is temporary. To replace is permanent. "If you don't have cinnamon, use nutmeg." That's a substitute. If you think the recipe turns out better with nutmeg, replace the cinnamon with nutmeg. Let the nutmeg take cinnamon's place, take over its role -- and not merely "substitute for", stand in for it until the cinnamon is back from holiday.
So much depends on what follows your ellipsis.
So much depends on what follows your ellipsis.
Note from asker:
For the record, the replacement was permanent... |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Mikhail Kropotov
: Yes, 'substitute for' is only temprorary
2 mins
|
agree |
Tina Vonhof (X)
36 mins
|
agree |
Mark Nathan
: yes, your author's wording could work if she means it became a temporary replacement (and insert "for" after "substituted"). Although I agree that "replaced" sounds better.
52 mins
|
agree |
kmtext
10 hrs
|
agree |
cmwilliams (X)
: yes, it would have to be 'when it was substituted for'.. but I think it sound more natural to say 'when it was replaced by'...
10 hrs
|
agree |
Vicky Nash
22 hrs
|
agree |
Pham Huu Phuoc
3 days 5 hrs
|
agree |
Phong Le
3 days 12 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
3 hrs
not necessarily incorrect.
"Barbasco first became a plant of interest in the late 1940s when it substituted another dioscorea, cabeza de negro, as the ideal raw material for obtaining desired chemical compounds."
This means that Barbasco was substituted for Dioscorea when Dioscorea may not have been available or it was overpriced. Not necessarily that it was as good as the one it substituted and there was also a chance the original product may be used again in the future or that the substitution was a correct one to do and may in fact be an illegal act. (A good example of this is the Chinese milk scandal where one product was substituted for another but not a replacement of the original product)
So this is where it is said to be substituted for another, and with the next you provided it looks like it may have been this, as there appears to be a senate hearing about this substitution, therefore it (the substitution) may have had serious side effects, just like the Chinese scandal.
It is a replacement product, if it is within the parameters of the law and it is approved to be a replacement product.
In the text you provided, the correct term is "substitute" and not "replacement or when it replaced another"
This means that Barbasco was substituted for Dioscorea when Dioscorea may not have been available or it was overpriced. Not necessarily that it was as good as the one it substituted and there was also a chance the original product may be used again in the future or that the substitution was a correct one to do and may in fact be an illegal act. (A good example of this is the Chinese milk scandal where one product was substituted for another but not a replacement of the original product)
So this is where it is said to be substituted for another, and with the next you provided it looks like it may have been this, as there appears to be a senate hearing about this substitution, therefore it (the substitution) may have had serious side effects, just like the Chinese scandal.
It is a replacement product, if it is within the parameters of the law and it is approved to be a replacement product.
In the text you provided, the correct term is "substitute" and not "replacement or when it replaced another"
10 hrs
displaced
"Barbasco first became a plant of interest in the late 1940s when it displaced another dioscorea, cabeza de negro, as the ideal raw material for obtaining desired chemical compounds."
Displace: to shift from its place, oust, take the place of, put something else in the place of.
Not saying there's anything wrong with replaced, but perhaps this works as well?
Displace: to shift from its place, oust, take the place of, put something else in the place of.
Not saying there's anything wrong with replaced, but perhaps this works as well?
19 hrs
replace because there can be no substitute in this case
"Barbasco first became a plant of interest in the late 1940s when it substituted another dioscorea, cabeza de negro, as the ideal raw material for obtaining desired chemical compounds."
There can only be one ideal raw material; therefore this was a replacement, not a substitution.
There can only be one ideal raw material; therefore this was a replacement, not a substitution.
Discussion
Barbasco first became a plant of interest in the late 1940s when it substituted another dioscorea, cabeza de negro, as the ideal raw material for obtaining desired chemical compounds. By the 1950s United States Senate hearings were trying to determine the fate of barbasco in Mexico while Mexican and foreign scientists researched, experimented on, and catalogued varieties of barbasco.
Isn't the issue about the verb being transitive?
v.intr. To take the place of another: “Only art can substitute for nature” (Leonard Bernstein).
http://www.answers.com/substitute
But 'substitute' does NOT mean to substitute something with itself.
Since you need meaning 2, only 'replace' will work.