Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Portuguese term or phrase:
mesteirais
English translation:
skilled servants [mesteirais]
Added to glossary by
Lucy Phillips
Apr 19, 2004 07:44
20 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Portuguese term
mesteirais
Portuguese to English
Art/Literary
History
"... os laboratores, a gente laboriosa da antiga classificação medieval, os camponeses e os trabalhadores urbanos, os artesãos, os mesteirais".
Is this term usually left in Portuguese (I have seen it left this way in historical works/articles dealing with the medieval period in Portugal)? Or is there an equivalent term in English?
Thanks.
Is this term usually left in Portuguese (I have seen it left this way in historical works/articles dealing with the medieval period in Portugal)? Or is there an equivalent term in English?
Thanks.
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +2 | skilled servants [mesteirais] | Muriel Vasconcellos |
5 +8 | craftsmen | Daniel Freire |
Proposed translations
+2
12 hrs
Selected
skilled servants [mesteirais]
I think "skilled servants" is the closest you can get. They would not be as skilled as artisans or craftsmen, and of course your list already includes "artesãos."
I do agree that it's important to leave the Portuguese, but without a translation, footnote, or other explanation the reader is lost. So I would add the Portuguese in parentheses The following explanation shows that the meaning of the word has changed since medieval times, and certainly you are looking for the medieval meaning.
Here is the quote I found:
Mester (do latim ministeriu, "ofício de servo"). Ministério significava, no século XIII, o ofício do servo e aquele que prestava um serviço era o mesteiral ou ministro... O mesteiral tinha a sua arte (mester). Hoje, o mestre tem a sua arte mas o ministro tem muitas "artes"...
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Note added at 2004-04-19 22:41:03 (GMT)
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From WordNet:
I avoided \"craftsman\" because you already had \"artesãos.\" In English, \"craftsman\" and \"artisan\" appear to be virtually synonymous. Here are the definitions from WordNet:
craftsman:
[n] a skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft
[n] a creator of great skill in the manual arts; \"the jewelry was made by internationally famous craftsmen\"
[n] a professional whose work is consistently of high quality; \"as an actor he was a consummate craftsman\"
vs.
artisan:
[n] a skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft
The original meaning of \"minister\" is \"servant,\" as in the following #1 definition from Webster 1913:
1. A servant; a subordinate; an officer or assistant of
inferior rank; hence, an agent, an instrument.
Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua. --Ex. xxiv.
I do agree that it's important to leave the Portuguese, but without a translation, footnote, or other explanation the reader is lost. So I would add the Portuguese in parentheses The following explanation shows that the meaning of the word has changed since medieval times, and certainly you are looking for the medieval meaning.
Here is the quote I found:
Mester (do latim ministeriu, "ofício de servo"). Ministério significava, no século XIII, o ofício do servo e aquele que prestava um serviço era o mesteiral ou ministro... O mesteiral tinha a sua arte (mester). Hoje, o mestre tem a sua arte mas o ministro tem muitas "artes"...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2004-04-19 22:41:03 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
From WordNet:
I avoided \"craftsman\" because you already had \"artesãos.\" In English, \"craftsman\" and \"artisan\" appear to be virtually synonymous. Here are the definitions from WordNet:
craftsman:
[n] a skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft
[n] a creator of great skill in the manual arts; \"the jewelry was made by internationally famous craftsmen\"
[n] a professional whose work is consistently of high quality; \"as an actor he was a consummate craftsman\"
vs.
artisan:
[n] a skilled worker who practices some trade or handicraft
The original meaning of \"minister\" is \"servant,\" as in the following #1 definition from Webster 1913:
1. A servant; a subordinate; an officer or assistant of
inferior rank; hence, an agent, an instrument.
Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua. --Ex. xxiv.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
António Ribeiro
: a explicação tem lógica.
1 hr
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
Sormane Gomes
3 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Once again a very thoughtful answer - muito obrigada Muriel!"
+8
34 mins
craftsmen
Mesteiral - Diz-se de, ou homem de mester, de profissão manual. (Aurélio XXI)
Dicionário Inglês-Português (Porto Editora)
Dicionário Inglês-Português (Porto Editora)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Henrique Magalhaes
35 mins
|
agree |
Susanne Rindlisbacher
1 hr
|
agree |
Salvador Scofano and Gry Midttun
1 hr
|
agree |
Henrique Serra
1 hr
|
agree |
Maria Luisa Duarte
2 hrs
|
agree |
rhandler
4 hrs
|
agree |
nothing
5 hrs
|
agree |
Vera Rocha
5 hrs
|
neutral |
Muriel Vasconcellos
: This is the modern meaning; Lucy is looking for what it meant in the medieval period. Did you see the explanation I quoted from the Internet?
11 hrs
|
Discussion
Also, I am not sure what exactly the difference is between an artisan and a craftsman!