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English translation: certificate of termination of pay
09:44 May 30, 2012
French to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - History / World War II, demobilization
French term or phrase:certificat de cessation de paiement
Memoirs of a Frenchman in WWII. It is October 1945, and the writer is nearing demobilization. He receives papers to allow him to be demobilized, as his regiment has been dissolved. One of these is the "certificat de cessation de paiement", and the writer defines it as "un certificat comme quoi XXX n'a pas eu de permission de détente pour 1945". I had thought of "suspension of pay/payment" But I must say I don't understand the link between the name of the paper and the definition given! All help gratefully received!
Explanation: It's the paper certifying that you're no longer receiving pay from the state.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2012-05-30 11:12:41 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
...so you can claim benefits, or other things
"Qu’est-ce que le certificat de cessation de paiement ? A qui dois-je l’adresser ? Le certificat de cessation de paiement est une attestation qui prouve que vous ne percevez plus de revenus sur le budget de l’Etat" on some officiel page I can't get the URL of
You have all been very helpful ...and thanks for all the ideas of scenarios which could explain the link between the certif. and the leave.... I'll have to stick with the "which stated that..." I think!
Could it mean that the certificate failed to take into account the leave he had just taken (i.e. showed that no leave had been taken by him in 1945)? That would, presumably, have been a mistake in his favour. That would also mean "un certificat comme quoi XXX n'a pas eu de permission de détente pour 1945" was a comment, rather than a definition.
Yeah, I don't think the tense matters (hasn't had/hadn't had - tomato, tomayto, lol), like you say, not having had leave has nothing to do with leaving the army.
Lots of room for puns in EN here (not appropriate, of course): the certificate says he can leave now because he couldn't leave before, but he was on leave when he was told he could leave... :-D
Btw, comme quoi would mean "which states that" in this context.
only now do I realise I mis-copied - the original text says "il n'avait pas eu". I take this to mean that he had had no leave (permission) during that year . But of course yes, that is the problem, that he'd had leave or not should not appear on this paper (logically :-) As I said before I may just gloss over the "comme quoi" ...
OK, cool. Re "pour 1945", I meant I find it odd that the certificate states he "did not have permission to" either relax or carry arms for the duration of that year.
If it means he didn't have permission to relax, would that not be on the enlistment/conscription form, rather than the "you can leave now" form? But then, if it means he no longer had permission to carry arms, than why say *for 1945* if it's toward the end of the year?
Hi there... no I honestly don't think there's irony or any play on words (I assume that you are talking of this illogical link!!) He is a very literal, ordinary kind of guy who lived through an extraordinary period, and has no pretentions to be "a writer", I think. It is true that he was a bit **** off that at the end of the war, awaiting demob, he didn't get all the leave he should was due (hence the (il)logical jump?) Did he re-read what he wrote? I don't know. But I sometimes also imagine the "definitiveness" of what was written on a typewriter - no cutting and pasting - and all that was involved if you wanted to 'improve' what you had written. As for the "pour 1945", well he had been on active service (chasing Germans in France, with great losses for his unit) until the very end.
(1) Could it be an example of irony (the end of duty is proof that the soldier did in fact serve during the war and wasn't allowed to relax during that time)? Is there previous/widespread use of irony in the text?
(2) Détente can also refer to the trigger of a gun/rifle; maybe it's a (weird) way of stating the soldier was off active duty and therefore not allowed to carry/use a firearm any more (you never know with bureaucratic-army-speak)?
Though I don't get "pour 1945" if demobilization was in October, with only 2-3 months left... right, it's the gov/army :-)
I am seriously considering attempting to gloss over the "comme quoi" (given the afore-mentioned tendency to ellipses), and say "he received the the ""CCP "" , which mentioned/indicated that...."
no, there's no text missing (I have the original typewritten copy)- he can be very elliptic (and unfortunately, is deceased so clarification difficult, but will try and see). My theory was that the lack of leave meant that he would get pay in lieu. He does speak of paid leave subsequent to demob as I said; but the reasons given for said leave are 1; having been part of the Forces Françaises Libres, and 2 because his regiment was dissolved... He was not unhappy about that. He really is just listing the formalities he went through.
certificat de cessation de paiement defined as un certificat comme quoi XXX n'a pas eu de permission de détente pour 1945 is hard to put together as a coherent whole. imo the client needs to be contacted.
A possible scenario: After five weeks of paid leave, the demobbed Frenchman was faced with the rest of the year (1945) without pay. He then felt that he had not been given permission to relax.
No he did most things by the book!! Just before this bit, he was indeed on leave (but perfectly legit!), and comes back to find his regiment has been dissolved... and that thus he is gong to be demobbed. He's sent to the admin. office where they give him this paper amongst other things. There is a complicated calculation afterwards (service, medals...) to decide the theoretical length of service ('cos you are allotted more 'time' if you've actually been at the front etc.), plus the paid leave between being officially demobbed, and actually being in "civvy" street. This man had five weeks of this kind of leave after receiving demob papers...
peer agreement (net): +4