May 27, 2022 10:06
1 yr ago
25 viewers *
Dutch term

niet schrapen maar laten

Dutch to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
"Het uitgangspunt 'niet schrapen maar laten' werkt alleen als je respecteert dat de ander ook nog iets over mag houden onder aan de streep. "

It's in a text talking about why a specific business deal between two shipping companies has been so successful, but I'm curious to know if anyone's come across this idiom? I can't find any translations for it.
Change log

May 27, 2022 13:21: philgoddard changed "Field (write-in)" from "It\'s a maritime text, but this seems to be an idiom" to "(none)"

Discussion

Kitty Brussaard Jun 2, 2022:
Agree with Tina in particular I also read 'schrapen' as meaning 'het onderste uit de kan willen halen' (i.e. emptying the proverbial jug to the bottom) and 'laten' as 'de ander ook iets gunnen' (leaving sth in the proverbial jug for the other party).
Barend van Zadelhoff May 28, 2022:
Indeed, impossibly far-fetched.
Also ,'not being greedy' is readily reconcilable with the rest of the sentence, unlike Brian's suggestion.

Michael Beijer May 28, 2022:
@Brian: re. "kuchen en schrapen" I have never heard the phrase "kuchen en schrapen" used in the sense you described. Then again, I have never worked in a business context in the Netherlands, but still. Seems a little far fetched to me. Bij kuchen en schrapen denk ik zelf aan dit soort dingen:

https://www.google.com/search?q="kuchen en schrapen"&rlz=1C1...
Barend van Zadelhoff May 28, 2022:
You find in English 'scraping for money'.

Does this also have the connotation of greed when the context allows for it?
Barend van Zadelhoff May 28, 2022:
Er is geen twijfel over de betekenis van schrapen hier.
In dat opzicht is er dus geen verdere context nodig.

Wat de algehele interpretatie betreft, is meer context natuurlijk altijd welkom

'schrapen' is niet het probleem.
'laten' laat een ruimere interpretatie toe, maar binnen de gegeven context moet er iets van te maken zijn, iets in de richting van wat ik en Tina hebben aangegeven.

Zoals reeds door Michael geciteerd:

van Dale

schrapen

3 (oneig.) bij kleine beetjes bijeenbrengen, met name uit hebzucht

Voorbeeld: geld bij elkaar schrapen
Tina Vonhof (X) May 27, 2022:
Ik denk dat de uitdrukking betekent " niet het onderste uit de kan willen hebben" wat betreft verdiensten, maar ook de ander een kans geven.
Jess Benson (asker) May 27, 2022:
The only context around it was the sentence I provided in the query. The previous sentence said 'our relationship is based on 'niet schrapen maar laten'. Then that was it, it wasn't mentioned again in the text. They're talking about a new partnership between two companies, they like the relationship because it's open, honest and fair. That was really all there was to it - I was mostly curious to find out if this was a common idiom I hadn't heard of.
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
agree with Phil a bit silly not to have asked for more context, which would probably make all this a lot clearer
Barend van Zadelhoff May 27, 2022:
There is no doubt about 'schrapen' here.

Take it from a Dutch native speaker.

No need to ask for further context.
philgoddard May 27, 2022:
Could we have the surrounding text, please I'm surprised no one has asked for this.
Could schrapen mean to haggle?
Barend van Zadelhoff May 27, 2022:
@Michael, could you come up with something that follows the same rhythm?

Like

The principle of not grabbing but ...

in a way that it works within the specific context?
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
@Barend: Indeed, that's more or less how I read it. My "don’t be a money-grubber" was meant to cover both aspects. That is: "niet schrapen" + "maar laten".
Barend van Zadelhoff May 27, 2022:
Or 'not take but give' :-)
James Duncan May 27, 2022:
Reminds me of the (principle of) 'give and take'.
Barend van Zadelhoff May 27, 2022:
I agree with Michael that 'schrapen' has to do with 'inhaligheid' (greed) here.

It is not completely clear to me what the expression (which is no standard idiom) in its entirity (niet schrapen maar laten) means, but perhaps, instead of playing a zero-sum game (schrapen), being prepared to give up some wishes of your own (laten)

If you look at it this way 'schrapen' is the opposite of 'laten': 'grasp all' vs 'granting the other party their fair share'
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
putting all this together I end up with something like:

"Het uitgangspunt 'niet schrapen maar laten' werkt alleen als je respecteert dat de ander ook nog iets over mag houden onder aan de streep. "
=
“The principle ‘don’t be a money-grubber’ only works if you respect the other person’s right to some of the profits at the end of the day.”

?
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
re "onder aan de streep" I'm assuming this refers to this (lifted from Van Dale):

"(figuurlijk) hoeveel blijft er onder (aan) de streep over?
how much money will it bring in, what will be the profits"
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
PS: am obviously just guessing here I've never come across the phrase "niet schrapen maar laten" used like this.
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
money-grubbing Oxforddictionaries.com:

money-grubbing
(also money-grabbing)
Overeager to make money; grasping.

SYNONYMS:
acquisitive, avaricious, grasping, money-grabbing, greedy, rapacious, mercenary, materialistic
North American informal grabby
rare quaestuary, Mammonish, Mammonistic
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
or Juridisch-Economisch Lexicon: schraper =
(gierig persoon) money-grubber
Michael Beijer May 27, 2022:
Maybe related to these sense (from Van Dale): schrapen:
fi­guur­lijk bij klei­ne beet­jes bij­een­bren­gen, m.n. uit heb­zucht
• geld bij el­kaar schra­pen
• ra­pen en schra­pen

and/or:

de pot uit­schra­pen

Proposed translations

+1
1 day 4 hrs
Selected

Not being greedy / Don't be greedy; Not being a money-grubber / Don’t be a money-grubber

I've never come across the phrase "niet schrapen maar laten" used like this. It is definitely not a well known idiom in Dutch.

Schrapen is probably related to these senses (from Van Dale):

schrapen:
fi­guur­lijk bij klei­ne beet­jes bij­een­bren­gen, m.n. uit heb­zucht
• geld bij el­kaar schra­pen
• ra­pen en schra­pen

and/or:

de pot uit­schra­pen

----

or Juridisch-Economisch Lexicon:

schraper =
(gierig persoon) money-grubber

----

Oxforddictionaries.com:

• money-grubbing
(also money-grabbing)
Overeager to make money; grasping.

SYNONYMS:
acquisitive, avaricious, grasping, money-grabbing, greedy, rapacious, mercenary, materialistic
North American informal grabby


• grasping:
Avaricious, greedy

SYNONYMS:
avaricious, acquisitive, greedy, rapacious, grabbing, usurious, covetous, venal;
mercenary, materialistic, money-oriented;

----

re "onder aan de streep"
I'm assuming this refers to this (lifted from Van Dale):

"(figuurlijk) hoeveel blijft er onder (aan) de streep over?
how much money will it bring in, what will be the profits"

----

I think I prefer using the term "greed(y)" instead of "money-grubbing", so, putting all this together, I ended up with something like:

Het uitgangspunt 'niet schrapen maar laten' werkt alleen als je respecteert dat de ander ook nog iets over mag houden onder aan de streep.

=

The principle of ‘Not being greedy’ only works if you respect the other person’s right to some of the profits at the end of the day.
The principle of ‘Not being greedy’ only works if you respect the other person’s right to a share of the profits at the end of the day.
The principle of ‘Not being greedy’ will only work if you respect the other person’s right to a share of the profits at the end of the day.

"at the end of the day" is optional
maybe change "person" to "party"


see e.g.:

"Alex’s second piece of advice is to not be greedy. He wishes that he had followed this piece of advice when he first started investing in real estate because he has gotten greedy on multiple occasions, which has cost him a lot of business. Alex believes he has made many more mistakes than most investors and greed was the main catalyst. Therefore, adopting a non-greedy principle as one of your business values will help you avoid making many mistakes." (https://www.bestevercre.com/blog/set-goals-dont-be-greedy-cr... )

+

"Not being greedy (to put it negatively) is, perhaps, first and foremost among the business virtues." (https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/A_Companion_to_Busine... )
Example sentence:

Not being greedy (to put it negatively) is, perhaps, first and foremost among the business virtues.

Therefore, adopting a non-greedy principle as one of your business values will help you avoid making many mistakes."

Peer comment(s):

agree Barend van Zadelhoff : yes about non-standard idiom; yes about 'onder de streep'; yes about 'greedy'; you ignore 'laten', but this may also be expressed in 'you respect the other person's etc.'. In that case no omission. Overall, it seems a workable solution to me.
37 mins
Bedankt!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
5 hrs

don't talk yourself hoarse

As in 'let the other get their say'. Just a guess.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Barend van Zadelhoff : Has nothing to do with persuasion. It's about greed. Michael was on the right track. // This reading is also not reconcilable with the rest of the sentence and it would be impossibly far-fetched anyway.
5 hrs
agree Barbara Schmidt, M.A. (X)
19 hrs
disagree Michael Beijer : Not quite sure how you arrived at either of your suggestions.
23 hrs
As in: kuchen en schrapen — ever negotiate with somone who just won't stop talking in an attempt to sell their deal? Negotiating is listening/acknowledging. Thus, "don't talk yourself hoarse, let them speak". It was just an intuited guess!
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