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" or '
DSR
May 25, 2005 16:49
19 yrs ago
English term

assigned the role of Y to Z

English Art/Literary Idioms / Maxims / Sayings semantics
Maybe someone can help me make this sentence sound more "elegant" :-)) Thanks in advance.


Dr. X assigned physics the role of muse to mathematics.
Responses
3 +2 attributed to physics the role of mathematics' muse
4 +5 restored to physics its role as muse to mathematics
3 +2 In Dr. X's eyes physics was the muse of mathematics.
2 +1 Dr. X called physics the muse of mathematics
3 In physics, Dr. X sees the muse to mathemattics.
Change log

Jun 1, 2005 10:21: SirReaL changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (2): Selcuk Akyuz, SirReaL

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Discussion

Tony M May 25, 2005:
Hi Rita! Only kidding --- but you DID say "feminine mind" ;-))
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
"Physics was cast in the role of muse to mathematics" seemed to fit best - I had to turn in corrections rapidly, sorry. thanks to Mike, Derek and Ruth - good teamwork :-)
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
I'm sorry if my words were interpreted as female solidarity - that was not my intention. In any case, I think this page is a fine example of how subtle language can be and that there are many ways to skin a cat (stylistically :-))
Refugio May 25, 2005:
For me the clue is "SON r�le", which seems to imply that the role had already belonged to physics but had been lost.
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
thanks Ruth, I think you have brought the true issue into focus (ah, the feminine mind :-) : is it just "giving" a role or restoring THE role? I would have to read his works to really know for sure.
Refugio May 25, 2005:
rendre > restituer > restore?
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
well I take that last comment back - maybe it's more that physics had fallen out of it's old role?
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
Dusty and Can: rendu because this is an original thinker - created a new field
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
Mike: "according to" is very close
Tony M May 25, 2005:
Hey, thanks Rita -- on behalf of all of us!
SirReaL May 25, 2005:
I know some English, I know some Physics, and I know some Math, but it's French where I'm brought to my knees! :)
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
Hey, you guys are good :-)
Non-ProZ.com May 25, 2005:
Dusty: it's actually from French, "a rendu � la physique son r�le de muse des math�matiques" -my excuses to the others. I understand it but it never seems to come out well.

Responses

+2
4 mins
Selected

attributed to physics the role of mathematics' muse

Just a thought, maybe if you are able to get away from 'assigned', it might make it easier?

It's still not very elegant, but at least the possessive helps a bit, doesn't it?

I hesitate to suggest such a construction, but I even wonder if a passive construction mightn't work here:

The role of muse to mathematics was assigned by Dr X to physics

Or:

Physics was cast in the role of muse to mathematics by Dr X.

Just a few ideas for the mletling pot, I'm sure there'll be many superior ones!

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Note added at 6 mins (2005-05-25 16:55:58 GMT)
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Oops! \'melting pot\', of course!

It depends a bit maybe on whether you are keen to emphasize physics or maths here? Are you sort of saying that physics became no more than a \'source of inspiration\' for mathematics; or that mathematics was lucky to be able to \'draw inspiration\' from physics?

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Note added at 11 mins (2005-05-25 17:01:30 GMT)
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In that case, surely it\'s important to retain the sense of \'rendu\' -- \'gave back to physics...\' (its original role as...)

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Note added at 30 mins (2005-05-25 17:20:16 GMT)
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Ah, makes more sense now...

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Note added at 36 mins (2005-05-25 17:25:43 GMT)
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That\'s kind of the way I read it, Rita.

In antiquity, physics as a discipline only started (I believe) as a kind of spin-off to maths, but those roles have almost been reversed in more recent times; I believe Dr X is redressing the balance...

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Note added at 37 mins (2005-05-25 17:26:57 GMT)
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I think this is suggested by the use of \'rendu\' and also the \'SON rôle\' (instead of \'LE rôle\')

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Note added at 37 mins (2005-05-25 17:27:15 GMT)
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almost \'rightful role\' ?

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Note added at 47 mins (2005-05-25 17:37:29 GMT)
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I like Ruth\'s idea of \'restored\', but would suggest \'restored physics to its role...\' (like restoring someone to the monarchy...)
Peer comment(s):
agree Can Altinbay : Keeping "assigned" with your first construction would work as well. "In Dr X's mind, the muse of mathematics is physics"?//You're on to something here.
4 mins
Thanks, Can! I think that all-important 'rendu' means the verb needs looking at again, don't you?
agree Refugio : NOW who didn't read his colleague's complete entry? ;~} // Just kidding around. Another case of great minds running in the same direction.
1 hr
Thanks, Ruth! Honestly, your added note wasn't showing when I posted --- funny server delays this side of the pond, it often happens to me...
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks Dusty - and everyone. I had to turn in these corrections rapidly and there's no sense in keeping it open IMO. My final is your 3rd suggestion was cast (or recast :-) un grand merci :-)"
+1
8 mins

Dr. X called physics the muse of mathematics

Am I making it too simple??

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Note added at 9 mins (2005-05-25 16:58:38 GMT)
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Dr. X thought of physics as being a muse to mathematics

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Note added at 9 mins (2005-05-25 16:59:28 GMT)
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According to Dr. X, the muse to mathematics is physics.
According to Dr. X, physics is the muse to mathematics.

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Note added at 13 mins (2005-05-25 17:03:04 GMT)
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Thanks to Dr. X, physics regained its role as the muse to mathematics.
Peer comment(s):
agree Can Altinbay : No, I think it works just fine.//I like the last one. I wonder how many people know what nits are.
1 min
I've added a few more for the public's nitpicking pleasure :) ++ And I see that you had the same thing in mind with the "In Dr. X's mind" construction
Something went wrong...
+2
14 mins

In Dr. X's eyes physics was the muse of mathematics.

In Dr. X's eyes physics was the muse of mathematics.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : I like this construction very much, as long as it does work in the wider sense with 'rendu'?
4 mins
Thanks, Dusty.
agree juvera
51 mins
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
31 mins

In physics, Dr. X sees the muse to mathemattics.

OR: "According to Dr. X, physics plays the role of muse to mathematics."

OR: "Dr. X sees physics as playing the role of muse to mathematics."

OR: "For Dr. X, physics plays the role of muse to mathematics."

OR: "Dr. X considers physics to play the role of muse to mathematics."

...just some additional possibilities. :-)
Something went wrong...
+5
36 mins

restored to physics its role as muse to mathematics

Based on the French, one interpretation of 'rendre' could be restore. It has so many meanings!

Other possibilities:

bestowed upon physics the role of muse to mathematics (in the sense of 'donner')

cast physics in the role of muse to mathematics (keeping the theatrical metaphor of 'rôle')

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Note added at 40 mins (2005-05-25 17:30:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or restored physics to its role as muse to mathematics
Peer comment(s):
agree Derek Gill Franßen : I can't really say much about the French, but if does mean that what you say it does, then "cast physics" really does sound good. :-)
7 mins
Thanks, Derek
agree Tony M : Nice one, Ruth! Hey, what's all this feminine solidarity thing, Rita? Tho' Ruth has expressed it better, this is exactly what my (relatively male) mind came up with ages ago! Ditto 'cast', Derek ;-)
10 mins
Sorry, Dusty, somehow my excessively speedy mind read your answer too fast and missed your contribution of 'cast'. ;~} My main entry is still the idea of restoring a previous role, though. Thanks for the agree.
agree Nick Lingris : The key word is "son". It means that this is a role that physics already had and Dr X reinstated it in that role. // Great, I see you already made that point!
13 mins
Yes, just as I said in the asker box. Thank you.
agree Selcuk Akyuz
30 mins
Thank you, Selcuk
agree Alfa Trans (X)
21 hrs
Something went wrong...
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