Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
payable comptant
English translation:
payable in cash [not literally bank notes, but cleared funds to creditor's account; implication of IMMEDIATELY and IN FULL]
Added to glossary by
Charlotte Allen
Feb 14, 2006 08:21
19 yrs ago
67 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
payable comptant
French to English
Law/Patents
Law: Contract(s)
Contract granting right to first refusal of property under construction
I am well aware that this term has come up before and that its usual meaning is 'payable in cash', with a secondary meaning of 'payable in full'. However, in this context I fail to see how either meaning can work.
"Ce prix sera payable comptant le jour de la vente notariée selon l’avancement des travaux constitutifs des biens désignés au paragraphe 3°) de l’Annexe 1 et, pour le surplus, à mesure de cet avancement, immédiatement après la survenue des évènements techniques suivants :
- Signature de l’acte notarié (avec imputation
du dépôt de garantie ci-après visé) : 20%
- Fondations réalisées 15%
- Plancher bas du 1er niveau réalisé : 20%
- Mise hors d’eau : 15%
- Menuiseries extérieures posées : 13,612%
- Achèvement des travaux de bâtiment : 11,388%
- Mise desdits biens à disposition
du RESERVATAIRE devenu acquéreur : 5%"
If the price for this property is payable 'in cash' on the day the sale goes through, as has been commented before, the purchasers are going to need a pretty big suitcase!
And if it's payable 'in full', then how come there is a 'surplus' to be paid at later dates, depending on the progress of the works?
All my dictionaries suggest only 'payable in cash' for 'payable comptant'. Is this to be understood as similar in meaning to the phrase 'cash buyer' in the context of house-buying? I.e. you don't actually turn up with a suitcase full of cash, but you have the money ready and waiting, perhaps because you have already completed the sale of your old house?
I've just had a brief word with a lawyer, and he suggested 'payment in cleared funds' as a possible alternative. Any thoughts?
"Ce prix sera payable comptant le jour de la vente notariée selon l’avancement des travaux constitutifs des biens désignés au paragraphe 3°) de l’Annexe 1 et, pour le surplus, à mesure de cet avancement, immédiatement après la survenue des évènements techniques suivants :
- Signature de l’acte notarié (avec imputation
du dépôt de garantie ci-après visé) : 20%
- Fondations réalisées 15%
- Plancher bas du 1er niveau réalisé : 20%
- Mise hors d’eau : 15%
- Menuiseries extérieures posées : 13,612%
- Achèvement des travaux de bâtiment : 11,388%
- Mise desdits biens à disposition
du RESERVATAIRE devenu acquéreur : 5%"
If the price for this property is payable 'in cash' on the day the sale goes through, as has been commented before, the purchasers are going to need a pretty big suitcase!
And if it's payable 'in full', then how come there is a 'surplus' to be paid at later dates, depending on the progress of the works?
All my dictionaries suggest only 'payable in cash' for 'payable comptant'. Is this to be understood as similar in meaning to the phrase 'cash buyer' in the context of house-buying? I.e. you don't actually turn up with a suitcase full of cash, but you have the money ready and waiting, perhaps because you have already completed the sale of your old house?
I've just had a brief word with a lawyer, and he suggested 'payment in cleared funds' as a possible alternative. Any thoughts?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +3 | payable in cash |
Bourth (X)
|
| 5 +4 | paid (immediately upon ...) |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
|
| 3 +2 | nfg |
Sylvia Smith
|
| 5 -1 | payable counting fom the day of ...... |
telefpro
|
Proposed translations
+3
1 hr
Selected
payable in cash
Just to point out that "comptant" is not "cash" as in coloured bits of paper with the Queen's effigy on it but "cash" in the sense of the contrary of credit, however the payment is made.
When I bought a car recently, the salesman asked how I intended to pay. "En espèces", I said (though theoretically I knew the difference). He smiled and said, "Unfortunately we can't take 'espèces'. You mean 'comptant' ". As indeed I did, since I did not need credit.
[It is (or was) illegal in France to pay for anything costing more than 10,000 francs in cash (I don't know if the numbers have changed)]
Had I bought the car with a loan from the dealer, I would not have been paying "comptant". Had it bought it with a bank loan, I would, because the seller gets the money immediately.
In English, cash is ambiguous:
"cash 1. money that a person actually has, including money on deposit; esp. ready money 2. bills and coins; currency 3 money or its equivalent, as a check of money order, paid at the time of purchase, as opposed to credit ..." [Websters]
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-14 09:52:33 GMT)
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As you say, people would need big suitcases if in international trade terms such as "cash against documents", "cash" had the first meaning above!
When I bought a car recently, the salesman asked how I intended to pay. "En espèces", I said (though theoretically I knew the difference). He smiled and said, "Unfortunately we can't take 'espèces'. You mean 'comptant' ". As indeed I did, since I did not need credit.
[It is (or was) illegal in France to pay for anything costing more than 10,000 francs in cash (I don't know if the numbers have changed)]
Had I bought the car with a loan from the dealer, I would not have been paying "comptant". Had it bought it with a bank loan, I would, because the seller gets the money immediately.
In English, cash is ambiguous:
"cash 1. money that a person actually has, including money on deposit; esp. ready money 2. bills and coins; currency 3 money or its equivalent, as a check of money order, paid at the time of purchase, as opposed to credit ..." [Websters]
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-14 09:52:33 GMT)
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As you say, people would need big suitcases if in international trade terms such as "cash against documents", "cash" had the first meaning above!
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Charlie Bavington
: That's what it says alright. Not for us to try to deduce the logic (I had wondered if it were just a deposit) which presumably makes sense if you can see schedules 1 and 5.
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Dr Sue Levy (X)
3 hrs
|
| agree |
Abdellatif Bouhid
: Your suggestion is very correct. BTW the titile of the document used in Quebec for conveyances is 'Sale of an immovable for cash' and 'cash' here covers any imaginable arrangement and very rarely 'argent sonnant'.
6 hrs
|
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
13 mins
nfg
Charlotte, this definition for "payer comptant" from my accounting dictionary may help:
"Régler une opération en numéraire, par carte de débit, ou par chèque dès qu'elle est conclue, sans terme ni crédit."
Actually, I think your friend's suggestion, payment in cleared funds, is right on target.
"Régler une opération en numéraire, par carte de débit, ou par chèque dès qu'elle est conclue, sans terme ni crédit."
Actually, I think your friend's suggestion, payment in cleared funds, is right on target.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Dr Sue Levy (X)
: in reality, either payment in cash (some people do!), cheque, proof of transfer, etc but you can't charge it to your credit card!
15 mins
|
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cheers Sue!
|
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| agree |
Tony M
33 mins
|
|
thank you Dusty
|
-1
1 hr
payable counting fom the day of ......
This is how I would translate without tears
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Sylvia Smith
: I still agree with Charlotte and her friend that payable comptant refers to 'payable in cleared funds on the date..,' and not 'payable on the date...'. But I appreciate your comment.
25 mins
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Sorry, It really is all about timing, paying straight away.
|
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| disagree |
Tony M
: It's really nothing to do with 'comptant' in the sense of 'counting'
39 days
|
+4
13 mins
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Specializes in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
172
paid (immediately upon ...)
Given that your text immediately after states "on the day of the sale", you need add nothing to the simple "paid" for this temr means paid immediately upon receipt of invoice, upon whatever event etc
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-02-14 10:43:15 GMT)
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All the phrases employing teh term "comptant" in the International Chamber of Commerce Internat Trade Dico confirm this analysis :
comptant : on the spot, cash on delivery, cash with order, on a cash basis...
The GDT :
"comptant", "au comptant" :
Note(s) :
Par exemple : acheter au comptant (to buy for cash); payer comptant (to pay cash).
L'expression au comptant se dit aussi d'une opération dont le règlement entraîne un décaissement immédiat de la somme totale, sans terme ni crédit.
"comptant" ("cash") :
Définition :
Paiement immédiat quel que soit le moyen de paiement utilisé dès lors que ce moyen de paiement ne prévoit pas de délai.
It really is all about timing, paying straight away.
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-14 10:11:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I get the meaning of "cleared funds" http://www.asbbank.co.nz/section655.asp ("Cleared Funds – a cheque that has been paid into your account needs to be ‘Cleared Funds’ before you can draw against the funds. Cleared Funds means that the money in your account is available to withdraw."), for example if it is a cheque then you have to be sure that the cheque will not bounce, that the funds are really available to cover it. But for me, this still fails to address the matter of timing, the on the spot bit. Agree to disagree ?!
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-14 10:12:19 GMT)
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What I mean is that if you pay immediately, then the funds are obviously available. But turning this on its head, you could pay with cleared funds but not necessarily immediately...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2006-02-14 10:30:54 GMT)
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What I mean is that if you pay immediately, then the funds are obviously available. But turning this on its head, you could pay with cleared funds but not necessarily immediately...
But of course, turning this on its head again, then cleared funds from the point of view of the person receiving mean funds cleared into his account, thus credited to his account on the due date. What a fool I am. Yes, from that point of view they are cleared.
"http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Government/Finance/spfm/gl...
Cleared Funds : Sums which have been transferred through a payment clearing system, debited to the originator of the transfer, credited to the recipient and are available to earn interest".
We are talking about the same thing, just different ways of expressing it.
Suggestions :
"The monies shall be paid over to X in cleared funds by [date] ..."
"The monies shall be paid cash to X by [date]..."
"The monies shall be credited to X by ..."
Now I quite like the suggestion of "paid in cleared funds" as long as it is clear that it means to the credit of the
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2006-02-14 10:43:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
All the phrases employing teh term "comptant" in the International Chamber of Commerce Internat Trade Dico confirm this analysis :
comptant : on the spot, cash on delivery, cash with order, on a cash basis...
The GDT :
"comptant", "au comptant" :
Note(s) :
Par exemple : acheter au comptant (to buy for cash); payer comptant (to pay cash).
L'expression au comptant se dit aussi d'une opération dont le règlement entraîne un décaissement immédiat de la somme totale, sans terme ni crédit.
"comptant" ("cash") :
Définition :
Paiement immédiat quel que soit le moyen de paiement utilisé dès lors que ce moyen de paiement ne prévoit pas de délai.
It really is all about timing, paying straight away.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-14 10:11:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I get the meaning of "cleared funds" http://www.asbbank.co.nz/section655.asp ("Cleared Funds – a cheque that has been paid into your account needs to be ‘Cleared Funds’ before you can draw against the funds. Cleared Funds means that the money in your account is available to withdraw."), for example if it is a cheque then you have to be sure that the cheque will not bounce, that the funds are really available to cover it. But for me, this still fails to address the matter of timing, the on the spot bit. Agree to disagree ?!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-02-14 10:12:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
What I mean is that if you pay immediately, then the funds are obviously available. But turning this on its head, you could pay with cleared funds but not necessarily immediately...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2006-02-14 10:30:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
What I mean is that if you pay immediately, then the funds are obviously available. But turning this on its head, you could pay with cleared funds but not necessarily immediately...
But of course, turning this on its head again, then cleared funds from the point of view of the person receiving mean funds cleared into his account, thus credited to his account on the due date. What a fool I am. Yes, from that point of view they are cleared.
"http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Government/Finance/spfm/gl...
Cleared Funds : Sums which have been transferred through a payment clearing system, debited to the originator of the transfer, credited to the recipient and are available to earn interest".
We are talking about the same thing, just different ways of expressing it.
Suggestions :
"The monies shall be paid over to X in cleared funds by [date] ..."
"The monies shall be paid cash to X by [date]..."
"The monies shall be credited to X by ..."
Now I quite like the suggestion of "paid in cleared funds" as long as it is clear that it means to the credit of the
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Yes, as Charlotte says, it is not 'cash' in the sense of coins and notes, but in the sense of "cash buyer", but as you say, there's no real need to expand further in this explained context.
34 mins
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| agree |
zaphod
1 hr
|
| agree |
telefpro
: agree
1 hr
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| neutral |
Sylvia Smith
: With all due respect Nikki, I still agree with Charlotte and her friend that payable comptant refers to 'payable in cleared funds on the date..,' and not 'payable on the date...'. But I appreciate your comment.
1 hr
|
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"payable compttant" is a standard phrase and just as "to b,e paid cash" means to be paid upon receipt of invoice, (cf Bourth's answer), this FR term is the equivalent. It is a question of timing and means payable there and then!
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| agree |
Colin Smith
: For once, French and English have a similar understanding of this concept: 'paiement comptant' and 'cash payment' in non-retail transactions means immediate payment which usually entails getting the cash into the seller's account on the day of the sale..
2 hrs
|
Discussion
"Le prix convenu est mentionn� au paragraphe 5�) de l�Annexe 1.
Ce prix, ferme et d�finitif, s�entend taxe � la valeur ajout�e incluse (au taux de 19,60%), mais hors frais, droits et �moluments de l�acte notari� de vente, de l�(des) acte(s) d�octroi d�emprunt(s) au moyen desquels le RESERVATAIRE financerait son acquisition et hors sa quote-part des frais d��tablissement/publication des documents vis�s � l�article 6 ci-apr�s.
Il ne comprend pas, en outre, la vente du mobilier, ni les frais relatifs � la r�cup�ration de la TVA.
En outre, en cas de variation du taux de la T.V.A. d�ici � la date de signature de l�acte notari� de vente, le prix ci-dessus serait major� ou diminu� en cons�quence.
Ce prix sera payable comptant le jour de la vente notari�e selon l�avancement des travaux constitutifs des biens d�sign�s au paragraphe 3�) de l�Annexe 1"