| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Status of translators Thread poster: David Young (X)
|
|---|
Russell Jones 
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:31
Italian to English
I have now received a reply from the Classifications and Harmonisation Unit within the UK Office for National Statistics, which is quoted below.
It might only be a small step but it seems they have given the matter further consideration and made adjustments.
One question it raises is whether we are adequately represented among the "stakeholders from industry and skills councils" who are the source of their data.
Their comment relating to "Major Group 2, Pro... See more I have now received a reply from the Classifications and Harmonisation Unit within the UK Office for National Statistics, which is quoted below.
It might only be a small step but it seems they have given the matter further consideration and made adjustments.
One question it raises is whether we are adequately represented among the "stakeholders from industry and skills councils" who are the source of their data.
Their comment relating to "Major Group 2, Professional Occupations" is in response to my observation that our expectation had been to find translators in the general category of "Professionals", given their length of training and / or specialist background.
____________________________
Hello Russell, The Classification is designed to cover all paid jobs performed by economically active persons in the United Kingdom. The jobs are primarily recognised by job title and are grouped according to the skill levels and skill specialisations. For your information I have also included here a link to the Standard Occupational Classification web page where you will find information on index entries and background information to the Classification itself: http://www.ons.gov.uk/about-statistics/classifications/current/SOC2000/dissemination/index.html (RJ’s note see pdf Volume 1 page 122 – Authors and writers) Please note this is subject to crown copyright: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/copyright.asp We are just reaching the end of the revision process, reviewing SOC 2000 to produce SOC 2010. This process was conducted in consultation with stakeholders from industry and skills councils. We appreciate that occupations change over time due to alterations in work organisation and different tasks involved and these are taken into account during our programme of job title research and classification revision. During this review process our investigations did not provide evidence that translators should be included within Major Group 2, Professional Occupations and so the decision was made to keep them within Major Group 3, Associate Professional and Technical Occupations. However, within SOC 2010, the unit group heading has been amended to highlight this field to " Authors, Writers and Translators". Linguists have also now been included in this unit group for SOC 2010.
[Edited at 2009-12-11 13:28 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-12-11 13:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Thanks for that, Russell. For various reasons, I don't agree with us being lumped together with authors and writers, but it's a start.
| | | | | National Qualification Framework | Dec 11, 2009 |
You could write back and point out that the IOL's Diploma in Translation is at level 7 (formerly level 5) in the National Qualification Framework for England, Wales and Northern Ireland, this being just one example, of course.
"Level 7 qualifications recognise highly developed and complex levels of knowledge which enable the development of in-depth and original responses to complicated and unpredictable problems and situations. Learning at this level involves the demon... See more You could write back and point out that the IOL's Diploma in Translation is at level 7 (formerly level 5) in the National Qualification Framework for England, Wales and Northern Ireland, this being just one example, of course.
"Level 7 qualifications recognise highly developed and complex levels of knowledge which enable the development of in-depth and original responses to complicated and unpredictable problems and situations. Learning at this level involves the demonstration of high-level specialist professional knowledge and is appropriate for senior professionals and managers. Level 7 qualifications are at a level equivalent to masters degrees, postgraduate certificates and postgraduate diplomas."
See:
http://www.tda.gov.uk/support/cdf/planner_guidance/qualification_levels/nqf_levels.aspx
[Edited at 2009-12-12 16:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | OlafK
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:31
English to German
+ ...
| no qualification needed | Dec 12, 2009 |
You don't need the DipTrans to call yourself a translator, in fact you don't need any formal qualification whatsoever.
I'm fine with being lumped together with writers as it is a similar job and you don't need any qualifications for that either, although I know that many translators don't have any discernible writing skills (but the same is true for writers).
[Edited at 2009-12-12 12:38 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Cedomir Pusica
Serbia
Local time: 21:31
Member (2009)
English to Serbian
+ ...
| You do need qualification! | Dec 12, 2009 |
In my opinion, it is a must if the profession is to receive any official recognition. It is not a prerequisite of a person's translation/interpreting skills, however.
If you want to have a valid contract you don't go and ask a friend of yours who's been watching "Boston Legal" or any similar stuff to prepare one for you. You go to a lawyer.
This requirement MUST exist for a profession to be recognized. It's great if you have a degree in engineering and speak another l... See more In my opinion, it is a must if the profession is to receive any official recognition. It is not a prerequisite of a person's translation/interpreting skills, however.
If you want to have a valid contract you don't go and ask a friend of yours who's been watching "Boston Legal" or any similar stuff to prepare one for you. You go to a lawyer.
This requirement MUST exist for a profession to be recognized. It's great if you have a degree in engineering and speak another language fluently, and if you are talented to translate from/into the language. But if you want to live off of this profession, then you should be officially qualified, and I don't mean 'going to school' to earn your degree, but having a global test system in place, with branches in every country, blah, blah, blah...
Then you would be able to concentrate on doing your job instead of moaning around. However, translation is specific in nature and, just as there are paramedics, there will always be paratranslators
Warning: Please, do not take these words personally. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
To Russel Jones....
Good for you...I'll bet they will be quite surprised. Hope you will let us know how they responded.
| | | | OlafK
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:31
English to German
+ ...
| I don't understand... | Dec 13, 2009 |
What's your point, Cedomir? Fact is, you don't need a formal qualification to call yourself a translator.
I hold a DipTrans (a "level 7" qualification apparently) but the proof is in the pudding.
It's nice of the Office for National Statistics to acknowledge our existence...
| | | | Cedomir Pusica
Serbia
Local time: 21:31
Member (2009)
English to Serbian
+ ...
| To know it you have to taste it ;) | Dec 13, 2009 |
Olaf, my point here is: to avoid complaining about our status, which in my opinion is the whole point of this thread, as well as of the research performed by Aarhus university, the only way to make others recognize our existence and appreciate it is through formal memberships in various national translator/interpreter guilds.
I cannot but agree with you that anyone who is fluent in two or more languges can call thems... See more Olaf, my point here is: to avoid complaining about our status, which in my opinion is the whole point of this thread, as well as of the research performed by Aarhus university, the only way to make others recognize our existence and appreciate it is through formal memberships in various national translator/interpreter guilds.
I cannot but agree with you that anyone who is fluent in two or more languges can call themselves translator, and their work may just add amazing flavor to the pudding in question (;)), but if that is the case and if they decide to be translators they would have to be part of an official association or pass some quite strict exams.
I like to compare our profession to that of lawyers - you may or may not like them, but one thing is for sure: you will show your appreciation every time you need one. You don't question their rates, at least, most people don't. Why? They have their bar associations. Other professionals are members of different chambers which protect their interests and so on. There is no such thing, for what I know, in translation industry.
That is my point. I'm not saying that you need a degree to be able to translate well, but you need some formal certification/license so that the profession would be protected.
Regards ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| translators vs writers and translators vs "translators" | Dec 13, 2009 |
Olaf said:
You don't need the DipTrans to call yourself a translator, in fact you don't need any formal qualification whatsoever.
I'm fine with being lumped together with writers as it is a similar job and you don't need any qualifications for that either, although I know that many translators don't have any discernible writing skills (but the same is true for writers).
I think there's an important difference between translators and writers. <... See more Olaf said:
You don't need the DipTrans to call yourself a translator, in fact you don't need any formal qualification whatsoever.
I'm fine with being lumped together with writers as it is a similar job and you don't need any qualifications for that either, although I know that many translators don't have any discernible writing skills (but the same is true for writers).
I think there's an important difference between translators and writers.
Writers are considered creative, so if they decide to write an entire book without commas, and manage to be successful, they are "writers". Gertrude Stein used few commas, Javier Marias wrote endless sentences with little punctaution, e.e cummings didn't punctuate.
Translators are more craftspeople. They take a material and transform it. There is as much or as little creativity - depending on your way of thinking (or the text) - as in a saddler making a saddle from leather and metal. Theoretically, they follow a fairly standard procedure in order to ensure that the conversion is functional.
But if an individual made a saddle that was an unusual transformation of leather and metal into something that he/she called a saddle (or not), that would be creative (art), depending on whether he/she could persuade other to believe it too. That person would no longer be a saddler, but an artist.
Of course, there's no copyright over pieces of leather ... whereas there is over someone's ideas in another language.
As for the fact that you don't NEED qualifications ... theoretically, no, but just think about the implications of the fact that there are so few barriers to entry to the profession.
You may not need qualifications to get in, but it helps to have them and CPD to survive and make a decent living (not pocket money) because the market is inundated with people with a computer, an Internet connection and "knowledge" of 2 languages (and KudoZ helps them along).
So don't be deluded. Do you want to bottom feed? If not, you have to get trained, commit to the profession, be trained on an ongoing basis, be real, be professional.
I can't cite sources, but the word going around for years is that that there's a shortage of "good" translators (no shortage of mediocre ones). ▲ Collapse
| | | | OlafK
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:31
English to German
+ ...
| I give up... | Dec 13, 2009 |
I only stated a fact: Currently the job title "translator" is unprotected and there is little hope of it ever being protected because very few people care about this anyway. I didn't say this was good or bad, I was merely pointing out a fact. Please don't lecture me. I am qualified and a member of a professional body, so I understand the advantages of accreditation. You're preaching to the converted.
One of my criteria for a good translator is the ability to decode a text, hmmm... <... See more I only stated a fact: Currently the job title "translator" is unprotected and there is little hope of it ever being protected because very few people care about this anyway. I didn't say this was good or bad, I was merely pointing out a fact. Please don't lecture me. I am qualified and a member of a professional body, so I understand the advantages of accreditation. You're preaching to the converted.
One of my criteria for a good translator is the ability to decode a text, hmmm...
Strictly speaking, a language degree in itself is not a translation qualification, as far as I know.
[Edited at 2009-12-14 02:11 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 21:31
French to German
+ ...
Olaf Knechten wrote:
Strictly speaking, a language degree in itself is not a translation qualification, as far as I know.
Seconded... for reasons too numerous to be written down for the moment.
| | | | | You are all missing the point | Dec 14, 2009 |
@ Olaf Knechten and others
If you read my post again, you'll see that I only gave the Dip Trans as an example, i.e. to point out that this category of translators at least, are on a par with some of these mysterious "stakeholders" in terms of formal qualifications.
I did, however, inadvertently leave the "e" off "one" (as in "one example" – now corrected), so maybe the message did not get across
A language degree at BA level would be level 6 and there are... See more @ Olaf Knechten and others
If you read my post again, you'll see that I only gave the Dip Trans as an example, i.e. to point out that this category of translators at least, are on a par with some of these mysterious "stakeholders" in terms of formal qualifications.
I did, however, inadvertently leave the "e" off "one" (as in "one example" – now corrected), so maybe the message did not get across
A language degree at BA level would be level 6 and there are many translators who hold this qualification in combination with a different level 7 qualification which is not the Dip Trans, but this would just be a different example, other than the example I chose to present.
The fact that "anyone can call themselves a translator", which is perfectly true, is not identical with claiming "anyone can do it", in the sense of the original article that triggered this thread.
However this is irrelevant.
The thrust of my argument was to provide evidence to refute the "associate professional" categorisation, at least in part.
This is in most instances sub-degree level, or at most foundation-degree level. An example would be an assistant teacher in a classroom who has no formal/professional qualifications as a teacher.
To make myself clear, I repeat it is not even bachelor degree level.
I have provided clear evidence that translators holding the Dip Trans have a formal qualification (and this is what we are talking about here) above degree level. I did not mean to say that ONLY Dip Trans people hold such a qualification. I repeat it was merely an example.
The fact that there are translators out there with no formal qualifications at all or that "translator" is not a protected title is a different subject altogether. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 21:31
French to German
+ ...
| Some of these points... | Dec 14, 2009 |
are dealt with in EN BS 15038.
Anne Gillard-Groddeck wrote:
The fact that there are translators out there with no formal qualifications at all or that "translator" is not a protected title is a different subject altogether.
| | | | | Foundation degrees/associate professionals | Dec 14, 2009 |
More info about foundation degrees and associate professionals here:
See more
| | | | Mónica Machado
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:31
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Very interesting discussion | Feb 5, 2010 |
Hello to all,
Although I am not an English translator nor based in the UK, I was very glad to read all your comments about this subject. I am a Portuguese translator leaving in Portugal and we always tend to think that in Portugal anyone can be a translator - leading the profession a bit astray. But me and some fellow translators around here always blame the Portuguese way of being... no rules at all or lots of rules that no one follows...
Now I realise this same proble... See more Hello to all,
Although I am not an English translator nor based in the UK, I was very glad to read all your comments about this subject. I am a Portuguese translator leaving in Portugal and we always tend to think that in Portugal anyone can be a translator - leading the profession a bit astray. But me and some fellow translators around here always blame the Portuguese way of being... no rules at all or lots of rules that no one follows...
Now I realise this same problem applies to English translators for the UK. So, all the translation institutions you have (i.e. IOL & ITI) make no difference? Anyone who speaks 2 languages can translate no matter the proficiency? Oh dear... I have to laugh! But why can't we translators act as lawyers or doctors? They can be good or bad but to practice they need to be registered somewhere. So, why shouldn't we translators require the same level of recognition?
Cheers
Mónica ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Status of translators | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
