Jul 29, 2005 18:56
19 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

il a, aurait pu ou pourrait entreprendre

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) Settlement agreement
From a settlement document, whereby a dismissed employee waives all rights to act against his former employer in consideration for a sum of compensation.

"Monsieur X indique ne plus avoir aucune demande à formuler à quelque titre que ce soit vis-à-vis du Groupe ABC et renonce à toute action et instance, qu’il a, aurait pu ou pourrait entreprendre à l’encontre du Groupe ABC ou de l’une de ses filiales, sous réserve du paiement par la société ABC des sommes visées à l'article 1."

I'm getting my tenses muddled up. Can anyone help?
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): df49f (X)

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Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Aug 3, 2005:
Thank you all! A big thank you to all of you for your contributions. Special mention to Kieran (with apologies for his still-smarting slapped wrist!) and to Peter, whose answer was very useful to me elsewhere in the text.
Charlie Bavington Jul 30, 2005:
..in fact he hasn't, it could be argued that is 'wrong' (or at least misleading, disregarding the other conditional alternatives on offer). If you say he MAY have, then, in a sense, you're 'right' whether he has or hasn't. That's how I see it, anyhow :-)
Charlie Bavington Jul 30, 2005:
Notwithstanding the fact that I obviously think the sentence should be read as "il a ou aurait pu... " (with the comma = "ou"), I'd also like to restate my "better generally right than specifically wrong" watchword :-) If you say he HAS undertaken, but..
Non-ProZ.com Jul 30, 2005:
Further on Charlie's suggestion along these lines: "il a pu entreprendre - he may have undertaken (but we don't know or don't wish to state whether he has or not)", I should clarify that the employee in question had stated a firm intention to bring an action before an industrial tribunal, but it would SEEM that this settlement was reached before he actually went that far.
Non-ProZ.com Jul 30, 2005:
Kieran - come back, all is forgiven (by me, although not necessarily by your fellow answerers).
Charlie - Good point. Where is 'entrepris'? In that case the sentence would have to be read as "qu'il a/aurait pu..."
Kieran McCann Jul 29, 2005:
or even 'validity'
Kieran McCann Jul 29, 2005:
my comment related to the difficulty we answerers seemed to be having in even agreeing what the tenses were, not the vaildity of asking the question in context in the first place...
Non-ProZ.com Jul 29, 2005:
I seem to have opened a grammatical can of worms!

Sorry if I implied that I don't understand the way French verbs work(! That would make me a pretty poor translator...) What I really meant was, what exactly is this legal language getting at by its use of these verbs in this context? Although fortunately most of you twigged that this was what I was getting at, as your answers reflect. I.e. that the employee waives all actions, including any that he has already brought, any he would have been entitled to bring, and any he might become entitled to bring in the future (save for this document).
I think Kieran's answer probably comes closest to expressing the sense of this paragraph, although I am sorely tempted to withhold the points from him as revenge for his comment that 'This is pretty basic stuff, il me semble'. ;-)
Not so basic that it hasn't resulted in five different answers.......

Proposed translations

+1
6 hrs
Selected

he may have... etc

I may be missing something here, but would not all the answers giving "he has undertaken" require the French to say "il a entrepris"?

Assuming there is no grammatical shortcut being taken, surely the tenses are:
il a pu entreprendre - he may have undertaken (but we don't know or don't wish to state whether he has or not)
il aurait pu entreprendre - he could have undertaken (had the right to, but didn't)
il pourrait entreprendre - he could undertake (in the future, if he felt so inclined)


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Note added at 6 hrs 52 mins (2005-07-30 01:48:57 GMT)
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Ah, I see that df49f has already posted a similar comment, but not as an answer itself. Well, I\'ll leave this in the hope that it at least fully clarifies what the 3 tenses actually are in full... :-)
Peer comment(s):

agree df49f (X) : of course this is it! glad to see my disagree above was put to good use! I still don't understand why all the confusion... seemed to obvious from the very beginning that I even voted to make this "non-Pro"! ;-)
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Better generally right than specifically wrong! This is what I went with in the end."
35 mins

that he has, could or would take

…, that he has, could or would take …

Another possibility.
Something went wrong...
+3
16 mins

he has, would have been able, or would be able to undertake

Otherwise stated, "has, could have, or could (ever) undertake"

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Note added at 38 mins (2005-07-29 19:34:55 GMT)
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The second and third original conjugations are both in the conditional. I think keeping the conditional makes sense here because upon signing this waiver of rights to litigate, the individual renounces litigation he *could have* pursued if he had not signed.
Peer comment(s):

agree Magdalena Talaban
8 mins
agree DocteurPC : keeping the conditional is absolutely necessary in this type of context
39 mins
neutral Charlie Bavington : "il a pu entreprendre" as "he has undertaken" (if I understand your answer correctly) - would that not be "il a entrepris"?
6 hrs
Yes, but in the source text there is no "pu" after "il a", which leaves the question as to what is really implied/left out after. I think "qu'il a entrepris, qu'il aurait..." would make the most sense based on the context of waiving rights to litigate.
agree Kieran McCann : with your take on 'qu'il a' vs 'qu'il a pu'
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
43 mins

has undertaken, could have undertaken or could (still) undertake

oddly, I don't think any of the others so far is right: you can't say 'has...undertake'!

'has undertaken, would have been able to undertake or would still be able to undertake' if you prefer
Peer comment(s):

agree LinguaFidelis : Good call =)
2 mins
well this is pretty basic stuff, il me semble...
agree jrb
2 hrs
thank you: I won't say anything else in case Charlotte slaps my wrist again
neutral Charlie Bavington : "il a pu entreprendre" as "he has undertaken" (if I understand your answer correctly) - would that not be "il a entrepris"?
6 hrs
the original is a bit sloppy but without another 'pu' or at least an 'ou' after 'il a', I think 'qu'il a entreprises' is a more likely reading than 'qu'il a pu entreprendre'/+doesn't make a lot of sense: either he has or he hasn't as a matter of record
Something went wrong...
+1
51 mins

that he did, could have or might undertake

after reading it 3 times, my suggestion
Peer comment(s):

agree Jennifer White : yes, right tenses here! (except slightly wrong grammar - "undertaken" Yes, I agree. The sentence would be clumsy with all that repetition
3 mins
2 out of 3 is ok :-) -could have undertaken naturally, but I thought this structure was possible in such situations. if not, then the verb has to be repeated all the way through...../ditto for French
disagree Anne Grimes : il a is the present tense, not the past
10 mins
has in the other answers is not present tense at all. it's an auxilary verb. I prefer avoiding the present perfect in such texts
agree Charlie Bavington : "il a pu entreprendre" as "he has undertaken" (if I understand your answer correctly) - would that not be "il a entrepris"?
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
5 mins

he has, will have been able, or will be able to undertake

present, future anterior, and future tenses

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Note added at 1 hr 2 mins (2005-07-29 19:59:11 GMT)
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See french.about.com and conjugate the verb pouvoir and you will see.
Peer comment(s):

agree Ghina
10 mins
agree soldini : he has, he will be able to, he will be able to
17 mins
disagree Jennifer White : no, wrong tenses. aurait pu = could have pourrait = might - perfect tense, past conditional and conditional
51 mins
disagree writeaway : il a is indeed he has. but that's not the meaning here-it's has undertaken. you can't treat this as a just grammatical exercise.
1 hr
of course it is he has undertaken, I just didn't write undertaken repeatedly, it is understood that it is he has undertaken, will have been able to undertake, or will be able to undertake.
disagree df49f (X) : les 2 conditionnels sont essentiels - and disagree aussi avec ceci: "il a" is absolutely NOT to be understaood as "he has undertaken..." mais "il a PU entreprendre"= he may have undertaken (sinon l'infinitif Français entreprendre ne fonctionnerait pas)
1 hr
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

any and all claims and potential claims ... and causes of action and potential causes of action

Eg
" waives any and all claims and potential claims and any and all causes of action and potential causes of action...etc"

More normal phraseology in English, rather than trying to follow the bouncing ball re tenses.
Something went wrong...
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