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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

that I save

English answer:

simple present

Added to glossary by literary
Sep 1, 2009 14:04
15 yrs ago
English term

that I save

English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
"the first larger amount that I save"
meaning: "that I will save"

It's most probably ungrammatical to use the infinitive as future tense here, but is it acceptable colloquially?
Responses
4 +5 simple present
4 +2 Infinitive won't work
3 that I save is correct as long as a future tense is followed after
References
Present Simple for future time

Discussion

Judith Hehir Sep 1, 2009:
I missed the boat. The asker confused me with the mention of the infinitive. Sorry, all
Sheila Wilson Sep 1, 2009:
@ Judith Yes, although you risk confusing non-native speakers with your terminology as present action often implies present continuous tense - here it's the present simple tense. The grammar point here is the same as that demonstrated in the Beatles' song title "When I'm sixty-four".
literary (asker) Sep 1, 2009:
OK, the infinitive wasn't the right term Present Simple
Judith Hehir Sep 1, 2009:
Tenses See my response to Yasumoto's post: present action (saving) to have a stash for the future
Sheila Wilson Sep 1, 2009:
Would you ever use the future? I can't in fact think of a context where I wouldn't use "that I save", unless you change it round to read "that is saved" (but that's still the present tense, just passive ;-)
Kim Metzger Sep 1, 2009:
Agree with Sheila Using the present tense to express the future in certain circumstances is quite standard English (both formally and colloquially). The first amount that he saves, she saves.
Sheila Wilson Sep 1, 2009:
Infinitive? Are you supposing that "that I save" is an infinitive? It isn't - 3rd person singular would be "that he saves". Perfectly correct if the rest of the sentence agrees. It would be much easier to help if we had a complete sentence.

Responses

+5
2 hrs
Selected

simple present

Using the simple present tense (present simple) to express a future event is quite standard usage both in colloquial and in formal English. The only thing I might change in "the first larger amount that I save" is 'larger' to 'large'.

Michael Swan, writes in "Practical English Usage": future: simple present
"We can sometimes use the simple present to talk about the future. This is common when we are talking about events which are part of a timetable or something similar.
The summer term starts on April 10th.
What time does the bus arrive from Seattle?
Are you on duty next week?

Subordinate clauses
The simple present is often used with a future meaning in subordinate clauses - for example after what, where, when, until, if, than

I'll tell you what I find out.
Note from asker:
Grammars give the rules for "if, when, as soon as + Present Simple", but not for "that + Present Simple", and not for "I hope it doesn't rain" (one of my previous questions).
Peer comment(s):
agree cmwilliams (X)
4 mins
agree Liam Hamilton
3 hrs
agree George C.
4 hrs
agree Armorel Young : indeed, this is standard usage, not even colloquial ("I'll give five pounds to the first person that I meet" - "that I will meet" would actually be wrong, even though it refers to a future event)
4 hrs
agree Demi Ebrite
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks And Sheila's reference comment"
+2
4 mins

Infinitive won't work

in either case (formally or colloquially)
Peer comment(s):
agree Alexander Ryshow
4 mins
Thanks, Alexander.
agree Olga B
19 mins
Thanks, Olga.
neutral Kim Metzger : Save is not an infinitive in "that I save". Compare "that he saves" /You didn't say much to begin with :-)
40 mins
Totally agree with you, Kim. I think you must've misunderstood me. Actually, I said that the infinitive has no place here in colloquial or formal speech. The question was misleading. I responded to it as is—an honest mistake on my part.
Something went wrong...
9 mins

that I save is correct as long as a future tense is followed after

You are right in the sense that it is not grammatical to use the infinitive as future tense, but you could add a future tense after "that I save". For example, the first larger amount that I save WILL go straight to my family bank account.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Judith Hehir : As long as is misleading. Consider "Every penny that I save (now) is contributing to tomorrow's nest egg.
5 mins
Hard decision, Judith. Can't we rephrase your sample sentence as "Every penny I save (now) will contribute to tomorrow's nest egg.?
neutral Kim Metzger : The sample sentence isn't using an infinitive.
35 mins
My sample sentence isn't using an infinitive, you're right. But the phrase in question is also not in the infinitive like you and Sheila pointed out. Is it possible to use an infinitve in a sentence like the above which I suggested or in the original?
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Reference comments

13 mins
Reference:

Present Simple for future time

Present Simple for future time
Fixed decision
The Present Simple is also used for a future action that the speaker considers as certain to take place in accordance with a firm decision or fixed timetable [...]
• George leaves at six o’clock tomorrow .
In subordinate (dependent) clauses
The Present Simple is commonly used in certain types of adverbial clauses to express future meaning:
• When/after/before/as/if/as soon as/once he arrives, the band will play the National Anthem.
[...] The subordinators involved belong to the temporal, conditional and conditional-concessive categories. (Quirk et al,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_tense#Present_Simple_for...

In the example 'Stephen goes to college next week' the term 'Stephen goes' is present tense. It is the context in this case - created by the phrase 'next week' - which tells us that we are being informed about the future.

http://www.buzzin.net/english/tenses.htm
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Sheila Wilson : Swan's "Practical English Usage": Simple present is often used instead of will ... in subordinate clauses that refer to the future eg I'll kill anyone who touches my possessions
33 mins
The asker's sentence is perfectly normal written and spoken English.
agree Jack Doughty
52 mins
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