The Horrible Idea of Post-Processing Machine Pseudo Translations
Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Oct 23, 2014

Another great blog post by Steve Vitek (he makes a great parallel between the scam of MpT post editing and the scam of requiring discounts for the use of translation memories/CAT tools)
(skip to the second section of the post if you are in a h
... See more
Another great blog post by Steve Vitek (he makes a great parallel between the scam of MpT post editing and the scam of requiring discounts for the use of translation memories/CAT tools)
(skip to the second section of the post if you are in a hurry):

http://patenttranslator.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/there-are-many-ways-to-commit-suicide-but-post-processing-of-machine-translations-would-be-a-horrible-way-to-go

Lately I have been receiving several e-mails asking if I will agree to do accept MpT (machine pseudo translation). Why do they care how I complete the translation as long as the end product is good? Why do they care whether or not I even use the MpT output they provide?

None of them ever bother to mention that what they are really after in most cases is a way to pay me less under the inaccurate theory that processing MpT output is somehow easier. I always respond that they can send me any file they want if what they are after is terminology consistency from previous human translations, but that I will not be charging any less. Strange that I never hear from them again.

Another thing that rarely gets mentioned is that these poorly paid "post MpT editors" are not going to have the time (or are not paid enough to care) to do anything other than just read through the pseudo-translation without comparing it to the source text, looking for anything that is grammatically incorrect or that does not make logical sense. The source text could say "Under no circumstances should you press the big red button" and the closest MpT match found on the internet turns up "By all means you should always press the big red button" and the "editor" skips right over this - sounds good - next segment...

Random quotes from the blog post:
"Translators already fell for the first hoax that was perpetrated on the translating community... Many translators, although by no means all of them, believed the promises that Computer Assisted Translation (CAT) tools would make it possible for them to increase their productivity... [until they discovered], they would only be paid a fraction of their usual rate, or nothing in some cases, for what in the industry parlance is referred to as “repeat words”, “fuzzy matches” and “full matches”...

"...maybe people are finally beginning to understand that all of this talk about higher productivity levels that would lead to higher incomes for translators was really just a smoke screen for an ingenious attempt... to achieve greater profitability by slashing the fees paid to translators – without necessarily passing [the savings] to the clients..."

"The second scheme, called “post-processing of machine translations”, is likely to be much more deadly to the translating community..."

"...the most important thing to understand is that machine translation is not really a translation; just a suggestion made by a dumb machine... "The concept of post-processing of machine translation is thus based on a faulty premise because it is almost always faster to translate anything, or at least complicated and highly specialized texts, by human translators from scratch. Post-processing is a just a scheme designed to get around the problem of high cost of human translation."


[Edited at 2014-10-23 20:14 GMT]
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Riccardo Schiaffino
Riccardo Schiaffino  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:44
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
To restate what has already been said many times Oct 23, 2014

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

Random quotes from the blog post:
"Translators already fell for the first hoax that was perpetrated on the translating community... Many translators, although by no means all of them, believed the promises that Computer Assisted Translation (CAT) tools would make it possible for them to increase their productivity... [until they discovered], they would only be paid a fraction of their usual rate, or nothing in some cases, for what in the industry parlance is referred to as “repeat words”, “fuzzy matches” and “full matches”...


That can only happen if a translator surrenders all contractual power to his or her customers.

It is up to us to set our rates (including, but only if we want to and it makes business sense for us, with discounts for fuzzy matches, 100% matches, perfect matches and repetitions).

That “until they discovered” is telling: it suggests that translators are poor victims who have no power in their business transactions.

People who make their own business decision don’t just “discover” what rates a customer is willing to pay - they set their own rates.

What is “deadly for the translating community” is translators who see themselves as victims and supinely accept whatever an unscrupulous prospect tries to foist on them.


 
Miguel Carmona
Miguel Carmona  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:44
English to Spanish
Finally, a proper, accurate term for that thing has been coined Oct 23, 2014

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

Machine Pseudo Translation



 
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
MpT Oct 23, 2014

Thanks, but I did not coin the term. I'm not sure who came up with it? Does anyone know? Perhaps: http://www.translationtribulations.com/2013/12/in-hampstr-we-trust.html


Miguel Carmona wrote:

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

Machine Pseudo Translation





[Edited at 2014-10-23 21:11 GMT]


 
John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 06:44
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
HAT = Human Assisted Translation Oct 24, 2014

Apparently it is now humans that are assisting the computers: human-assisted machine pseudo-translation (HAMPsTr) http://www.translationtribulations.com/2013/12/in-hampstr-we-trust.html

 
Phil Hand
Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 18:44
Chinese to English
Human assisted communication Oct 24, 2014

The majority of emails that arrive in my inbox were written by a computer. I receive as many phone calls from robo-marketers as I do from people. I think I talk to more people than computers in meatspace (unless the androids have infiltrated us), but that's so, like, 20th century.

In future I'm sure any communication tainted by sloppy neuron splat will come with a glowing red exclamation mark on it. When I click, my helpful butler droid will warn me "This communication has a suspici
... See more
The majority of emails that arrive in my inbox were written by a computer. I receive as many phone calls from robo-marketers as I do from people. I think I talk to more people than computers in meatspace (unless the androids have infiltrated us), but that's so, like, 20th century.

In future I'm sure any communication tainted by sloppy neuron splat will come with a glowing red exclamation mark on it. When I click, my helpful butler droid will warn me "This communication has a suspicious origin. Reading it could have unpredictable results. Are you sure you want to proceed? How about watching the latest robo-soap instead? 9.138 out of 10 users rated 'The Robot We To Love' as 'better than poking yourself in the eye with a stick.'"
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Teresa Reinhardt
Teresa Reinhardt  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:44
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
Truer words were never written Oct 24, 2014

[quote]Riccardo Schiaffino wrote:


People who make their own business decision don’t just “discover” what rates a customer is willing to pay - they set their own rates.

What is “deadly for the translating community” is translators who see themselves as victims and supinely accept whatever an unscrupulous prospect tries to foist on them.


 
Anna Sarah Krämer
Anna Sarah Krämer
Germany
Local time: 11:44
Member (2011)
English to German
+ ...
This will continue... Oct 24, 2014

...until someone presses the big red button because the instruction manual said so. Let's just hope it isn't the "Release-All-Nukes"-button.

Happy assisting!


 
LilianNekipelov
LilianNekipelov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:44
Russian to English
+ ...
Absolutely. Post-editing is more of a scam than anything else. Oct 24, 2014

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

Another great blog post by Steve Vitek (he makes a great parallel between the scam of MpT post editing and the scam of requiring discounts for the use of translation memories/CAT tools)
(skip to the second section of the post if you are in a hurry):

http://patenttranslator.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/there-are-many-ways-to-commit-suicide-but-post-processing-of-machine-translations-would-be-a-horrible-way-to-go

Lately I have been receiving several e-mails asking if I will agree to do accept MpT (machine pseudo translation). Why do they care how I complete the translation as long as the end product is good? Why do they care whether or not I even use the MpT output they provide?

None of them ever bother to mention that what they are really after in most cases is a way to pay me less under the inaccurate theory that processing MpT output is somehow easier. I always respond that they can send me any file they want if what they are after is terminology consistency from previous human translations, but that I will not be charging any less. Strange that I never hear from them again.

Another thing that rarely gets mentioned is that these poorly paid "post MpT editors" are not going to have the time (or are not paid enough to care) to do anything other than just read through the pseudo-translation without comparing it to the source text, looking for anything that is grammatically incorrect or that does not make logical sense. The source text could say "Under no circumstances should you press the big red button" and the closest MpT match found on the internet turns up "By all means you should always press the big red button" and the "editor" skips right over this - sounds good - next segment...

Random quotes from the blog post:
"Translators already fell for the first hoax that was perpetrated on the translating community... Many translators, although by no means all of them, believed the promises that Computer Assisted Translation (CAT) tools would make it possible for them to increase their productivity... [until they discovered], they would only be paid a fraction of their usual rate, or nothing in some cases, for what in the industry parlance is referred to as “repeat words”, “fuzzy matches” and “full matches”...

"...maybe people are finally beginning to understand that all of this talk about higher productivity levels that would lead to higher incomes for translators was really just a smoke screen for an ingenious attempt... to achieve greater profitability by slashing the fees paid to translators – without necessarily passing [the savings] to the clients..."

"The second scheme, called “post-processing of machine translations”, is likely to be much more deadly to the translating community..."

"...the most important thing to understand is that machine translation is not really a translation; just a suggestion made by a dumb machine... "The concept of post-processing of machine translation is thus based on a faulty premise because it is almost always faster to translate anything, or at least complicated and highly specialized texts, by human translators from scratch. Post-processing is a just a scheme designed to get around the problem of high cost of human translation."


[Edited at 2014-10-23 20:14 GMT]

MT is poisonous not just to the translation community, but even more so to the translation itself: to knowledge and human progress. It takes usually more time to post edit MT well than to translate the text from scratch.

[Edited at 2014-10-24 09:11 GMT]


 
Thayenga
Thayenga  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:44
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Take it or leave it ;) Oct 25, 2014

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

Another thing that rarely gets mentioned is that these poorly paid "post MpT editors" are not going to have the time (or are not paid enough to care) to do anything other than just read through the pseudo-translation without comparing it to the source text, looking for anything that is grammatically incorrect or that does not make logical sense. The source text could say "Under no circumstances should you press the big red button" and the closest MpT match found on the internet turns up "By all means you should always press the big red button" and the "editor" skips right over this - sounds good - next segment...

Random quotes from the blog post:
"Translators already fell for the first hoax that was perpetrated on the translating community... Many translators, although by no means all of them, believed the promises that Computer Assisted Translation (CAT) tools would make it possible for them to increase their productivity... [until they discovered], they would only be paid a fraction of their usual rate, or nothing in some cases, for what in the industry parlance is referred to as “repeat words”, “fuzzy matches” and “full matches”...

"...maybe people are finally beginning to understand that all of this talk about higher productivity levels that would lead to higher incomes for translators was really just a smoke screen for an ingenious attempt... to achieve greater profitability by slashing the fees paid to translators – without necessarily passing [the savings] to the clients..."


Whenever I receive job offers asking for/demanding discounts for fuzzies or repetitions, my reply is always: discounts are given solely at my descretion," and "Please keep in mind that just because a word is repeated several times throughout a certain text doesn't mean that it's grammatically correct and, therefore, requires no proofreading or editing. German grammar is too complex to simply accept a repetition of a single word as being absolutely flawless."

Like you, I never seem to get a reply.


"The second scheme, called “post-processing of machine translations”, is likely to be much more deadly to the translating community..."

"...the most important thing to understand is that machine translation is not really a translation; just a suggestion made by a dumb machine... "The concept of post-processing of machine translation is thus based on a faulty premise because it is almost always faster to translate anything, or at least complicated and highly specialized texts, by human translators from scratch. Post-processing is a just a scheme designed to get around the problem of high cost of human translation."


[Edited at 2014-10-23 20:14 GMT]


The assumption that MT and the inevitable post-editing would render a flawless translation is basically an illusion. Only during a break do I "use" MT, but only because I might be in need of a hearty chuckle.

Post-editing is, IMO, a waste of engergy because, as Samuel stated, it's less time consuming (and better for one's nerves) to just retranslate the text from scratch. This, however, is oftentimes not deemed "necessary" by clients which turns the task into unpaid work, or one for a few peanuts.

Again, it all boils down to the translators' decision as LSP's. Which leads me back to my favorite example, if you stop at a gas station or grocery store and demand discounts on whatever you're buying, be assured that the owner will be happy to show you where the mason had left the large opening called door.


 


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The Horrible Idea of Post-Processing Machine Pseudo Translations







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