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Tamil translators beware - intriguing blue board entries
Thread poster: Narasimhan Raghavan

Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:12
English to Tamil
+ ...
Sep 4, 2009

I received today an enquiry through my profile page for English to Tamil translation/editing as follows. The enquiry came from a platinum member.

Hello,
We have 1600 words to be translated into Tamil, and 3100 words
for editing. The subject is general. If you are intrested, please
send us your CV, and advise your rate per English source word in
US$ separately for translation and editing, turnaround, and
payment method you can accept.
Thank you,
xxxx

On clicking the sender's profile, I saw the following expandable entry after "Kudoz activities" and above "year established" (shown as 0 in this profile page).

Blue Board 27 entries
More

When I clicked on "more" I saw some 27 LWA entries many of them at 1 and 2. But I was intrigued to see that there were just 6 entries, all at 5, in the actual Blue Board page obtained by clicking the hyperlink under "Affiliations" in the same profile page.

By the way, I have sent support request to Proz regarding this and requested clarification. The support request has since been acknowledged.

It will be interesting to see the email exchange I subsequently had with the concerned outsourcer.

My mail:
I saw your profile page. In that there is expandable reference to LWA and on expanding it I saw 27 entries, many of which are indeed bad.

I am not interested to work with you.

The outsourcer's reply:
You must have seen it by mistake, our record is perfect, anyway, we are not interested in working with you, as careless translator. You are not qualified.

My rejoinder:
So I am supposed to have seen it by mistake? Whose mistake? Anyhow this is what I get from your own profile page at http://www.proz.com/profile.php/xxxxx

How do you explain the bad records and in many instances your absence of reply against the said bad ratings?

Regards,
N. Raghavan
[A very careful translator, who does not want to get duped]
The said 27 entries were copy pasted (not shown here lest it should reveal the identity of the outsourcer and violate the forum rules).

Final reply from the outsourcer:
We dont want to talk to you, but learn how to use Proz.com first. Can you read English?
We block your emails from now on.

So there you are. In the first instance, I warn my fellow English > Tamil translators against a possible cheating attempt if by chance they too received this proz lists mail.

Have a nice and safe day. I am happy that I will no longer be receiving email from that outsourcer

Regards,
N. Raghavan


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mohanv
India
Local time: 17:12
French to English
+ ...
I too received this email and had a similar reaction Sep 4, 2009

Hello Raghavan
I too received this email this morning; went through the profile page, was surprised as well as confused how the blueboard could indicate 5/5 and had a similar reaction. I thought probably the negative entries in the profile page related to more than 1 year. Finally I decided against responding to the email. It is good that you brought this issue out. I agree that the blueboard entry of 5/5 can be totally misleading. If it cannot be avoided, then proz can think of giving some indication of caution giving a reference link to the negative comments in the profile page.
V Mohan


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Alejandro Cavalitto
Local time: 08:42
SITE STAFF
This seems to be a misunderstanding Sep 4, 2009

Dear Narasimhan,

Thanks for submitting a support request to report this. I have looked into both the profile and the affiliated Blue Board record, and found that this is just a misunderstanding.

The member in question has decided to show the Blue Board entries he has made in his profile, but has chosen to hide the outsourcer name and country, so the entries look like entries made on the profile itself. These are the 27 entries you see in the profile. I confirm that the Blue Board record affiliated to the profile has 6 entries, and all of them have an LWA rating of 5.

All users can show the Blue Board entries they have made in their profile, the field is below "Project History" in the main profile page. They can choose which fields to hide and from whom here: http://www.proz.com/settings/freelancer/feedback .

This misunderstanding happened because the way information is hidden is confusing at the time. I apologize for that. I have now requested site developers to implement a different way of showing that a field is hidden. I will let you know here when it has been implemented.

Best regards,

Alejandro Cavalitto
ProZ.com Staff


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:12
English to Tamil
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What a bizarre way of doing things? Sep 4, 2009

More bizarre is the way the outsourcer countered my mail. It clearly showed a guilty conscience. Now it is seen that he could have avoided all these hassles by not hiding the fields.

In the first place I do not see any reason to give your blue board record of others and that too without clarity.

Regards,
N. Raghavan

Alejandro Cavalitto wrote:

Dear Narasimhan,

Thanks for submitting a support request to report this. I have looked into both the profile and the affiliated Blue Board record, and found that this is just a misunderstanding.

The member in question has decided to show the Blue Board entries he has made in his profile, but has chosen to hide the outsourcer name and country, so the entries look like entries made on the profile itself. These are the 27 entries you see in the profile. I confirm that the Blue Board record affiliated to the profile has 6 entries, and all of them have an LWA rating of 5.

All users can show the Blue Board entries they have made in their profile, the field is below "Project History" in the main profile page. They can choose which fields to hide and from whom here: http://www.proz.com/settings/freelancer/feedback .

This misunderstanding happened because the way information is hidden is confusing at the time. I apologize for that. I have now requested site developers to implement a different way of showing that a field is hidden. I will let you know here when it has been implemented.

Best regards,

Alejandro Cavalitto
ProZ.com Staff


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Alejandro Cavalitto
Local time: 08:42
SITE STAFF
The requested modification has now been implemented Sep 7, 2009

Dear Narasimhan,

I just wanted to let you know that the requested modification has now been implemented. It is now specified which fields are hidden from the list of Blue Board entries in profiles.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Please let me know if you need anything else.

Best regards,

Alejandro Cavalitto
ProZ.com Staff


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Reading between the lines Sep 7, 2009

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:

More bizarre is the way the outsourcer countered my mail. It clearly showed a guilty conscience.

Producing a few nice BlueBoard entries is one thing, following good business practices is another thing. It would not be the first time that a BlueBoard profile starts nicely and becomes awkward later on - so there is not necessarily a contradiction, and you may have discovered a new way of improving security.


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:42
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
The misunderstanding is still there Sep 8, 2009

Alejandro,
I believe the reason for the misunderstanding is the label of the field that is shown on the profile page.
It is simply called "Blue Board", but what it means is Blue Board entries made by the profile owner.
So, in the case of that outsourcer, they apparently made 27 entries for other outsourcers, and some of them were low ratings. Narasimhan misunderstood the field, he thought the comments were made by others in reference to this outsourcer. It is an easy mistake, especially if the profile belongs to a company, i can understand that mentioning the "Blue Board" would bring an immediate association with ratings for the given company.

I believe the name of the field should be changed to avoid this type of misunderstanding.
How about "Blue Board entries made by this user/member"?

Katalin


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:12
English to Tamil
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How true Katalin Sep 8, 2009

Whatever might be the reason for my misunderstanding, it is a fact that I unnecessarily wounded the feelings of the outsourcer in question and lost a possible job in the bargain.

I emailed to the concerned outsourcer through his profile page asking - without any reservation - for his pardon. That was done privately. But I now feel that I will make public this fact, though it will be quite embarrassing for me.

I agree with Katalin that this misunderstanding would not have occurred had the field's description clearly said, "Blue Board entries made by this user/member".

Regards,
N. Raghavan

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Alejandro,
I believe the reason for the misunderstanding is the label of the field that is shown on the profile page.
It is simply called "Blue Board", but what it means is Blue Board entries made by the profile owner.
So, in the case of that outsourcer, they apparently made 27 entries for other outsourcers, and some of them were low ratings. Narasimhan misunderstood the field, he thought the comments were made by others in reference to this outsourcer. It is an easy mistake, especially if the profile belongs to a company, i can understand that mentioning the "Blue Board" would bring an immediate association with ratings for the given company.

I believe the name of the field should be changed to avoid this type of misunderstanding.
How about "Blue Board entries made by this user/member"?

Katalin



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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:42
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Reopen the support request Sep 8, 2009

Narasimhan,
Please reopen the support request and call Alejandro's attention to this thread again. He may not be following it automatically.
Katalin


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:12
English to Tamil
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Katalin, I have re-opened the support ticket Sep 8, 2009

Thanks Katalin, I have re-opened the support ticket and conveyed the suggestion about changing the description of the field in question.

I am sure it will be accepted by the Proz management.

Regards,
N. Raghavan

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Narasimhan,
Please reopen the support request and call Alejandro's attention to this thread again. He may not be following it automatically.
Katalin


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Overcautious is not careless Sep 8, 2009

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:

it is a fact that I unnecessarily wounded the feelings of the outsourcer in question and lost a possible job in the bargain.

There is still something wrong with his reply.
If you put his BlueBoard profile on your watch list, maybe you will find out in some months that you did not lose anything.

[Edited at 2009-09-08 15:18 GMT]


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:12
English to Tamil
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The same old duckpond story Sep 8, 2009

It made me think of this forum http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/17137-check_this_box.html#111789 and I went to that forum. Lo and behold, you and I are there also discussing the expression "assaulted by the duckpond"!!!

The moral of the story is:
The quirkiness of the English language traps everyone including yours truly N. Raghavan, whose blunder started this forum in the first place.

Regards,
N. Raghavan

Harry Bornemann wrote:

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:

it is a fact that I unnecessarily wounded the feelings of the outsourcer in question and lost a possible job in the bargain.

Unless the outsourcer is a woman, there is still something wrong with his reply.
If you put his BlueBoard profile on your watch list, maybe you will find out in some months that you did not lose anything.


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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
It started with a misunderstanding.. Sep 8, 2009

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:
you and I are there also discussing the expression "assaulted by the duckpond"!!!


Of course I remember that one, but there are still two things to point out:

A) When someone feels embarrassed about his blunder he easily overlooks that he was not the only one who was wrong in that story - something to keep in mind.

B) I still wonder why you sent an email writing "I am not interested to work with you."
At the moment I am still in Ethiopia, looking with a German eye and an Ethiopian eye:

- For German standards a statement like "I am not interested to work with you" would mark the end of a discussion, and would rather be replaced by silence, i.e. not replying at all.

- For Ethiopian standards it would mark the beginning of a discussion.

- Now I wonder what it means in Tamil standards and/or the standards of this outsourcer?


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Narasimhan Raghavan  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:12
English to Tamil
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
When I am clearly at fault and it started the whole charade, I hesitate to blame others Sep 8, 2009

I cannot deny that I committed a blunder. And there I stop.

I could have requested Proz to hide this thread if possible as it shows me up to have made a mistake. Yet I refrain from even contemplating it as I consider the whole exercise as a lesson to me to be more careful.

Regards,
N. Raghavan


Harry Bornemann wrote:

Narasimhan Raghavan wrote:
you and I are there also discussing the expression "assaulted by the duckpond"!!!


Of course I remember that one, but there are still two things to point out:

A) When someone feels embarrassed about his blunder he easily overlooks that he was not the only one who was wrong in that story - something to keep in mind.

B) I still wonder why you sent an email writing "I am not interested to work with you."
At the moment I am still in Ethiopia, looking with a German eye and an Ethiopian eye:

- For German standards a statement like "I am not interested to work with you" would mark the end of a discussion, and would rather be replaced by silence, i.e. not replying at all.

- For Ethiopian standards it would mark the beginning of a discussion.

- Now I wonder what it means in Tamil standards and/or the standards of this outsourcer?



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Harry Bornemann  Identity Verified
Mexico
English to German
+ ...
Charade (disambiguation) Sep 8, 2009

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A charade is a sham or pretense. It may also refer to:

* Charades, a game
* Charade (film), starring Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn
* "Charade" (song), the film's theme song
* Charades, a 1998 film
* "Charade" (Bee Gees song), a song by the Bee Gees, released in 1974
* "Charades" (song), a song by Serj Tankian
* Charade Circuit, a French auto-racing track
* Daihatsu Charade, a car
* Charade (Soulcalibur), a fictional character from the Soul series of fighting games
* Charade, a music group originally known as Bonfire from the 1980s.
* Euphemism for marketing


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