Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >
Making early grading impossible
Thread poster: Trudy Peters

Trudy Peters  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:43
German to English
+ ...
Sep 10, 2005

In addition to the recommendation of waiting 24 hours before grading, I think it would be a good idea to make grading IMPOSSIBLE for the first 12 (or at least 8)hours. Many people ignore the recommendation and close the question as soon as the first answer comes in, depriving themselves and the rest of us of alternative solutions and - in some cases - interesting discussions.

Henry?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ines Garcia Botana  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:43
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
A good idea! Sep 10, 2005

You have put my thought into words!

Good point!

Cheers
Inés


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:43
German to English
Early grading Sep 10, 2005

Trudy Peters wrote:

Many people ignore the recommendation and close the question as soon as the first answer comes in, depriving themselves and the rest of us of alternative solutions and - in some cases - interesting discussions.



This is a battle I and others have been fighting for a looong time, Trudy. I'm certainly with you a hundred percent. I've been unable to find any good reason to continue to allow people to close their questions immediately.

http://www.proz.com/post/250962#250962

http://www.proz.com/post/226285#226285

http://www.proz.com/post/217675#217675






[Edited at 2005-09-10 02:45]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Fuad Yahya  Identity Verified
Arabic
+ ...
And here is my vote, too Sep 10, 2005

If a no-grading zone is to be imposed let us make it 24 hours. I see no good reason for a half-way measure. Let us remember that ProZ.com is a world community, and the world is a sphere that goes around once every 24 hours. While one third of the planet is online trying to help the asker, the other two thirds are either still asleep or about to go to sleep. It takes 24 hours for the whole community to have an opportunity to take a look at the question, let alone consider addresssing it.

[Edited at 2005-09-10 19:08]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Lydia Molea  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:43
English to German
+ ...
Agree Sep 10, 2005

At least a 12-h period should be mandatory.

Direct link Reply with quote
 
xxxPFB  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:43
English to French
+ ...
Vote for a 24-hour limit Sep 10, 2005

I agree that closing a question "early" shouldn't be allowed for the reasons Trudy has expressed so well, and I think 24 hours is reasonable, since literally the whole world should be able to take part in the debate (if any) over a particular question, as Fuad said.

[Edited at 2005-09-10 11:26]

[Edited at 2005-09-10 11:26]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Oliver Walter  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:43
Member (2005)
German to English
+ ...
I don't agree Sep 10, 2005

I don't agree that early grading should be impossible. Once the asker is confident that the correct answer has been supplied, that should be enough. This is an example of that.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1134880

The reminder to the asker, that is already provided, that 24 hours delay is recommended, should be enough. The discussion and debate already mentioned in this thread are certainly often interesting and educational but:
The purpose of KudoZ "answer questions" is to provide answers to translation questions. The rest is useful, perhaps even valuable, but not the purpose. Once the purpose has been satisfied in a particular case, let the asker grade the replies if s/he wants to, and get on with the rest of his/her translation work.

KudoZ should show users how to behave well and recommend actions in some cases but not try to compel certain behaviours unless disobedience of this is regularly causing problems and preventing the purpose of KudoZ from being met.

Oliver


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:43
German to English
The purpose of KudoZ Sep 10, 2005

Oliver Walter wrote:

I don't agree that early grading should be impossible. Once the asker is confident that the correct answer has been supplied, that should be enough. This is an example of that.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1134880

The purpose of KudoZ "answer questions" is to provide answers to translation questions. The rest is useful, perhaps even valuable, but not the purpose. Once the purpose has been satisfied in a particular case, let the asker grade the replies if s/he wants to, and get on with the rest of his/her translation work.



I agree, Oliver, that there are rare occasions when there is little likelihood that answers already provided can be improved upon. A very good answer that is well documented and has peer approval is often sufficient for a well-informed asker. In such cases, the asker feels obligated to spare others from spending their time on the question.

I do think these occasions are rare. In most cases, the more input "we" get on a term, the better for the glossary. And I use the term "we" deliberately. KudoZ is for all of us, not just the asker. When I use the glossary I often find an answer that was not selected is the best choice for my particular context, and I get those alternatives only because the asker wasn't in such a hurry to end the KudoZ process.

I disagree with your definition of the purpose of KudoZ. The "purpose of KudoZ" is to create an excellent terminology resource for all professional translators.

And "well-informed asker" is the operative term. I'm often not "well-informed" and neither are many others when it comes to deciding on the best solution. I may think I have found just the right solution, but if I wait a while along comes something even better.

So what's so difficult about waiting 24 hours before closing a question? I have seen a lot of damage caused by ill-informed askers getting the KudoZ grading chore off their backs five minutes after submitting the question. Some people see a question that fascinates them and launch an extensive investigation only to find the question closed when they've found an excellent solution. They can still add their results but they are less likely to spend that kind of quality time on questions in the future. We've got to do whatever is necessary to encourage quality answers, and premature grading is one deterrent to quality.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Pablo Grosschmid  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:43
English to Spanish
+ ...
Fully agree with Kim Sep 10, 2005

preventing closing before 24 hours would improve the quality of the database.

there is nothing to prevent the asker to use immediately the first answer received, if he/she is in a hurry to deliver a translation.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 21:43
English to Swedish
+ ...
An Excellent Suggestion Sep 10, 2005

Another vote for making grading IMPOSSIBLE for the first xx hours.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:43
German to English
Damage caused by askers eager to get the process over Sep 10, 2005

I said I have seen a lot of damage caused by ill-formed askers closing their questions as soon as possible. I forgot to mention the worst damage caused by eager closers: they encourage the race to get sloppy answers in before anyone else has a chance to submit something thoughtful. KudoZ game players know who the quick closers are and know their chances of getting some points are increased if they can get something in before others have a chance. In other words early closers contribute to poor quality answers and garbage entered in the glossaries. And, by the way, we're not talking about rare exceptions. There are a lot of early closers around. Other members recognize that speed is crucial and it doesn't take long before speed is most important factor for all questions answered.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Trudy Peters  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:43
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi Kim! Sep 10, 2005

I must have missed most of the previous posts on this subject, some of which were buried in the number-of-questions threads.

How many more times do we have to bring this up before something is done about it?


Direct link Reply with quote
 
gad
United States
Local time: 15:43
Member
French to English
Not a 24-hour limit, but a 12-hour limit, perhaps Sep 10, 2005

IF you are going to impose a MANDATORY limit, then I do not think that it should be the full 24 hours. Sometimes you have the answer right away and so there is a reason to close the question sooner, particularly because apparently we only have two weeks (not very long, considering) to either grade the question or it gets automatically graded by the KudoZ robot. (I was a little shocked that my answer was chosen by peers, when it wasn't that old. I would've thought a little more time would be allowed for that.)

Sometimes I know if I'm going to be off the site / offline for awhile, and I have the answer anyway, sure I close the question before the 24 hour SUGGESTED waiting period, so that the points are awarded. I don't think you can make 24 hours mandatory. However, if you do want to make a period of time mandatory, make it 12 hours, that is a bit more reasonable, IMO. Then we just have to keep in mind that we apparently have the window of between 12 hours and 2 weeks to grade the question or it will be graded automatically for us. BTW, two weeks may seem like a lot, but it's not necessarily, if you have a difficult term and are working on a lengthy project and would need to wait for confirmation back from the agency or client regarding the correct translation. Perhaps a month would be a little more reasonable.

Those are my suggestions. I don't think that 12 hours is a big deal, if someone has the answer already. I do try to comply with the 24 hour waiting period but if it has been, say, 18 hours (this happened to me very recently, btw) then I don't think I should be prevented from closing it, either. That's still plenty of time for active site users to have had the opportunity to provide an answer.

Please do NOT make the 24-hour waiting period mandatory. If you do want to make a waiting period mandatory, please make it something like 12 hours.

[Edited at 2005-09-10 18:37]


Direct link Reply with quote
 
gad
United States
Local time: 15:43
Member
French to English
Those using the ProZ.com Term Search do not have to use the answer(s) chosen Sep 10, 2005

Kim Metzger wrote:

I said I have seen a lot of damage caused by ill-formed askers closing their questions as soon as possible. I forgot to mention the worst damage caused by eager closers: they encourage the race to get sloppy answers in before anyone else has a chance to submit something thoughtful. KudoZ game players know who the quick closers are and know their chances of getting some points are increased if they can get something in before others have a chance. In other words early closers contribute to poor quality answers and garbage entered in the glossaries. And, by the way, we're not talking about rare exceptions. There are a lot of early closers around. Other members recognize that speed is crucial and it doesn't take long before speed is most important factor for all questions answered.



I understand what you are trying to say, but those of us who are diligent will take a look at the entire past KudoZ question that comes up when doing the ProZ.com Term Search, to see whether or not the answer even fits in OUR particular context. MANY times, I use an answer not picked by the previous asker (and I sometimes add an "agree", so that the answerer knows that his/her contribution is APPRECIATED anyway), either because the context of my document might be slightly different, or because I disagree with the answer that the asker had chosen.

Even if someone using the Term Search does not go into an individual question, we're still going to seriously think about any particular translation we find before actually using it in our work.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
gad
United States
Local time: 15:43
Member
French to English
I disagree completely Sep 11, 2005

Fuad Yahya wrote:

If a no-grading zone is to be imposed let us make it 24 hours. I see no good reason for a half-way measure. Let us remember that ProZ.com is a world community, and the world is a sphere that goes around once every 24 hours. While one third of the planet is online trying to help the asker, the other two thirds are either still asleep or about to go to sleep. It takes 24 hours for the whole community to have an opportunity to take a look at the question, let alone consider addresssing it.

[Edited at 2005-09-10 19:08]


It doesn't take 24 hours for enough people to have answered a question. Really, 12 hours is more than enough. There are MANY times when I have the answer quickly yet then wait to grade the question because of the 24-hour rule. Also, I don't spend 24/7 on the site, so if I'm getting offline for a few hours and have the time at that time to grade a question, I should have that option. It would be unfair to block me from doing so for an entire day, just because there is this fictitious notion that the whole world must have the opportunity to answer. Enough people can answer and give input in 12 hours' time, in most cases.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Making early grading impossible

Advanced search






WordFinder
The words you want Anywhere, Anytime

WordFinder is the market's fastest and easiest way of finding the right word, term, translation or synonym in one or more dictionaries. In our assortment you can choose among more than 120 dictionaries in 15 languages from leading publishers.

More info »
Déjà Vu X3
Try it, Love it

Find out why Déjà Vu is today the most flexible, customizable and user-friendly tool on the market. See the brand new features in action: *Completely redesigned user interface *Live Preview *Inline spell checking *Inline

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search