Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Greek (Ancient) term or phrase:
elenchus
English translation:
cross-examination
Greek (Ancient) term
elenchus
Thank you!!
| 5 +6 | cross-examination |
Nick Lingris
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| 3 +5 | counterargument |
Kirill Semenov
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| 3 +1 | Vide infra |
Joseph Brazauskas
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Jul 12, 2005 14:33: Kirill Semenov changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"
PRO (2): Vicky Papaprodromou, Kirill Semenov
Non-PRO (1): Joseph Brazauskas
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Proposed translations
United Kingdom
The word is my oyster
Native in: Greek 
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English, Greek
cross-examination
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elenchos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method
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Note added at 14 mins (2005-07-12 14:43:44 GMT)
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A rather more advanced article can be found here:
[http://www.utpjournals.com/product/utq/713/713_furlani.html]
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Note added at 1 hr 44 mins (2005-07-12 16:13:14 GMT)
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My \'Ask the asker\' comes up with a warning, which reads: \"Use the Ask-the-Asker field only to request for clarification on questions. No other use of this field is permitted.\"
So let me try to answer your question here:
Shifts in meaning:
First, the verb (el\'encho):
Used in Homer, meaning \'put someone to shame\'
Then in classical Greek (Herodotus, Plato, the tragics): to cross-examine, to question
Then, the noun (\'elenchos): argument aimed to disprove or refute
Then: cross-examination, any kind of scrutiny aimed to refute.
In the Socratric method: (Wikipedia) a negative method of hypotheses elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those which lead to contradictions.
In the words of Ben Jonson: Hear him problematize... Or syllogize, elenchize. :-)
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Note added at 1 hr 54 mins (2005-07-12 16:23:35 GMT)
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And no, I do not believe it is the result of the process, the refutation itself. (And I\'m ready to keep this up until everything is clear in your mind.)
| agree |
Joseph Brazauskas
: Yes, for purposes of refutation.
36 mins
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Thank you, Joseph. Sometimes you don't know how much you can heap on an asker.
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| agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
45 mins
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;-}
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| agree |
Adam Bartley
: "cross-examination" is the right term here. 'Counter-argument' envisions two competing paradigms, whereas 'cross-examination' involves the examination of an existing one, which is more in the Socratic mode of discourse.
17 hrs
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Thanks.
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| agree |
kaydee
: yes, definitely not the result
3 days 2 hrs
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Thank you, K.
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| agree |
sonja29 (X)
5 days
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| agree |
Maria Ferstl
10 days
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Ukraine
60+ books translated and published
Native in: Russian
Works in: English to Russian, Russian
counterargument
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Note added at 4 mins (2005-07-12 14:33:49 GMT)
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The literal meaning of \"elenchos\" is close to \"a challenge\" or \"to probe\", \"to test\", I assume
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Note added at 7 mins (2005-07-12 14:36:01 GMT)
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Or, you may say, an ironical way of enquiry
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Note added at 1 hr 10 mins (2005-07-12 15:39:51 GMT)
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Elenchus is certainly not a verb
| agree |
Joseph Brazauskas
: I think tht 'counterargument' is the best single English word to convey the meaning of the Greek, but 'elenchos' is not a verb.
37 mins
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thnank you, dear Joseph -- long time no see :)
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| agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
49 mins
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| agree |
Valentini Mellas
1 day 4 hrs
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| agree |
sonja29 (X)
5 days
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| agree |
Maria Ferstl
10 days
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United States
When You Want It Done Right
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
, Spanish (Variant: Standard-Spain)
Works in: Latin to English, English to Latin, Greek (Ancient) to English, and 23 more.
Vide infra
Nonetheless, I would support the rendering of 'conterargument', if I wee to go by my knowledge of Socratic doctrine, always bearing in mind that our knowlede of what Socrates himself actually taught is far from certain.
Discussion