Créance envers une société proche

12:33 Jan 29, 2024

This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer

French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Accounting

French term or phrase: Créance envers une société proche

This item is an asset in a company account
"société proche" is my query

I am considering "receivable due from linked company" but cannot find a convincing translation

AllegroTrans KudoZ activity Questions: 470 (none open) (78 closed without grading) Answers: 7445 United Kingdom
Local time: 07:38

Summary of answers provided

4 +1

Amounts due (payable) from affiliates

Andrew Bramhall

4 -1

Claim on a company with family connections

Francois Boye

4 -1

Debt towards a nearby company

MassimoA

receivable due from a company with family connections

Bourth

3 -2

Subsidiary

Rhys Allan

2 -1

amount due / owed to a related undertaking (entity = company or partnership)

Adrian MM.

Summary of reference entries provided

A sample of Annual accounts of a Swiss company

Daryo

Discussion entries: 4

Answers

53 mins confidence:

receivable due from a company with family connections

Explanation:
It is interesting that Créance envers une société proche brings up only 4 ghits, all of them Swiss, and 3 of them (including what follows) being the same thing.

"Absence d’intérêt sur une créance envers une société proche
J’ai fait du commerce avec la société de mon cousin. Les affaires ont malheureusement mal tourné pour lui et nos relations se sont donc terminées. Comme il a des difficultés financières visiblement, j’encaisse peu à peu le solde de ce qu’il me doit, mais renonce à lui calculer des intérêts."
https://www.drys.ch/pdf/20120116bjabsenceintérêtssurcréances...

Is there any evidence in your document that this is the case?

Example below of my suggestion.

"Ltd company A lends £200,000 to Ltd company B that is owned by a family member of company A, to purchase a buy to let property. The loan is repaid from B to A out of part of the rental income.
Can it be an interest free loan or does interest have to be charged? […] However, it is possible that HMRC could successfully argue that the making of an interest-free loan to a company with family connections is not within the commercial purposes of Company A, and therefore disallow the write-off (but the credit in B remaining taxable)."
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/loan-to-connecte...

Bourth
France
Local time: 08:38
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 11

Notes to answerer

Asker: No, unfortunately no clues

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

Claim on a company with family connections

Explanation:
Claim is the English for 'créance'. It's a right to get what you own. In this case, a company with family connections owes you an amount of money

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 02:38
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 150

43 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -2

Subsidiary

Explanation:
My thought is that either 'subsidiary' or 'sister company' may work here, depending on the full relationship between the two linked companies.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-01-29 16:25:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think, regarding the full sentence, I would have given it as "amount due to sister company", or something along those lines.

However I think the answers given by Bourth and Francois are excellent, and if the Société Proche is indeed a company with family connections, then perhaps something like "related company" would be a potential solution?

https://www.britannica.com/money/topic/subsidiary

Rhys Allan
Germany
Local time: 08:38
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

writeaway: Subsidiary, a company that is at least 51 percent owned by another business firm, known as a parent company or holding company https://www.britannica.com/money/topic/subsidiary

4 mins

-> Yes, despite my main answer I would actually probably lean more towards 'sister company', to demonstrate what appears to be a close equal relationship.

disagree

Daryo: Not very likely, a subsidiary would simply be included in the "consolidated accounts" of the parent company + "family ties" are NOT the only possible connection between two "connected/related" businesses.

10 hrs

disagree

Steve Robbie: Subsidiary is too narrow, as noted above, and "sister company" also suggests that they have a common *parent*, which need not be the case.

21 hrs

7 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

créance envers une société proche amount due / owed to a related undertaking (entity = company or partnership)

Explanation:
> "receivable due from linked company" - like the other receivable answer - IMO is a canny interpretation and definitely (Daily Mail commentators: 'definately') on the right lines.

I also def. agree with Rhys A's related company, except it may not be a company, but a partnership rather than a one-man/-woman company akin to a sole (BrE) trade or (AmE) proprietorship that is often misunderstood as inseparable from a private individual (need not be furthjer canvassed here)- but see below.

I moot 'undertaking', as used by my hono(u)rable UK accountant in Croydon, just in case the entity in point is a partnership, a corporation or even an EU-type EIG / economic interest grouping.

Related company includes, affiliate (50% *or less*), associate (as per comment on the first answer, notably between 20% and 50% (= owns this percentage of its shares): or subsidiary 50.01% + or more than 50%-owned

Note that, in both English & French law, companies can be members / general *unlimited* partners of partnerships, so there are various permutations and combinations that I would rather not speculate on out of context - hence my low CL = confidence level in symetrically, descending order of answers : 4-3-2-1.

Example sentence(s):

In most cases, the parent company will own less than a 50% interest in its affiliated company.// ASSOCIATED COMPANY: a company in which another company has a stake of between 20% and 50%
'amounts owed to affiliated undertakings and participating interests'

Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/accounting/50650...
Reference: http://iate.europa.eu/search/result/1706555708513/1

Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 41

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks for this and your reasoning, despite your reference to your Croydon Croney. I like the neutral "undertaking"

22 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

Amounts due (payable) from affiliates

Explanation:
A brief online research reveals it to be a predominantly Swiss French term:

du 1) Créances des actionnaires envers la société

Canton du Jura
https://www.jura.ch › CTR › Formulaires2019
PDF
Créances des actionnaires envers la société : Nom des actionnaires, pers ... b) Votre société paie-t-elle des rentes à ses actionnaires ou personnes proches ?

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
affiliate
verb
/əˈfɪlɪeɪt/
officially attach or connect (a subsidiary group or a person) to an organization.
"they are national associations affiliated to larger organizations"
Similar:
associate with
be in league with
unite with
combine with
join with
join up with
join forces with
ally with
form an alliance with
align with
amalgamate with
merge with
coalesce with
federate with
confederate with
form a federation with
form a confederation with
team up with
band together with
cooperate with
annex to
attach to
yoke to
incorporate into
integrate into
associated
allied
related
integrated
amalgamated
incorporated
federated
confederated
unified
connected
linked
joined
bound
belonging
in league
in partnership
noun
/əˈfɪlɪət/
a person or organization officially attached to a larger body.
"the firm established links with American affiliates"

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Note added at 23 hrs (2024-01-30 11:53:29 GMT)
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@Asker: yes indeed Chris, Swiss French and Swiss German ( and almost certainly Swiss Italian of which I have no knowledge) have their own idiosyncratic legalese terminology, as does Austrian German to a lesser extent. Therefore the quest for directly equivalent translations is often futile.

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Note added at 23 hrs (2024-01-30 11:58:33 GMT)
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P.S. Sorry for the lengthy printout of definitions of 'affiliates', it just happened without me being able to see it first. But I think a generic term like 'affiliates' could work here.

Andrew Bramhall
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:38
Native speaker of:

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Yes, it is indeed a Swiss term

4 days confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

Debt towards a nearby company

Explanation:
"Créance" refers to a debt. It is not certain that we are talking about an affiliated company, I prefer to translate "nearby".

MassimoA
Italy
Local time: 08:38
Native speaker of:

Italian
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: I fail to see how a "nearby" company can be of any relevance; this is about a "relationship" between companies

Reference comments

11 hrs peer agreement (net): +2

Reference: A sample of Annual accounts of a Swiss company

Reference information:
Annual accounts of

Compagnie du chemin de fer Nyon-St-Cergue-Morez SA, Nyon

(hardly any kind of "family business")

"2.2.5 Prêts société proche 1 1
Prêt à RailTech SA, postposé 100 000 100 000
Taux d'intérêt 2022: 0.0%
Durée: du 27.05.2019 au plus tard le 01.01.2030
Correction de valeur"

This loan was made to another company also in the railway business RailTech SA - the connection is that they are both in the railway business, with possibly some kind of cross-ownership or some other from of interdependence, as otherwise the loan would certainly NOT be at "Taux d'intérêt 2022: 0.0%"

https://www.nstcm.ch/data/dataimages/Upload/Rapport de gesti...

A loan between two businesses at 0% interest rate - typical opposite of what would be an "arm’s length transaction".

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Note added at 11 hrs (2024-01-29 23:52:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another point:

"receivables" are amounts owed to the company by buyers of goods or services sold by the company.

So "receivables" won't work here, as this "Créance envers une société proche" results in fact from a loan that is supposed to be paid back at some point in future, not from a sale.

https://getuplearn.com/blog/what-is-receivables/

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Note added at 11 hrs (2024-01-29 23:58:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here the link between these two companies - can't see any kind of "family ties" anywhere on the horizon:

A propos de RailTech

Fortes d’une collaboration fructueuse, à l’acquisition d’une nouvelle génération de véhicules ferroviaires, entre 2013 et 2015, les entreprises vaudoises de chemin de fer Lausanne-Echallens-Bercher SA (LEB), Transports de la région Morges – Bière – Cossonay SA (MBC), Transports Montreux – Vevey – Riviera SA (MVR), Compagnie du Chemin de fer Montreux-Oberland bernois SA (MOB), Compagnie du chemin de fer Nyon – St-Cergue – Morez SA (NStCM), Transports Vallée-de-Joux – Yverdon-les-Bains – Sainte-Croix SA (TRAVYS), les Transports publics du Chablais SA (TPC) et les transports publics fribourgeois Holding SA (TPF) ont recherché de nouvelles perspectives de coopération dans le cadre de leurs activités.

La maintenance et l’entretien des bogies étant une compétence présente au sein des entreprises MOB/MVR, TPF et TPC une mise en commun de ce savoir-faire est apparue comme essentielle et s’inscrit dans cette volonté de collaboration.

Sur la base de ces constats et après analyse des enjeux, les entreprises LEB, MBC, MOB, MVR, NStCM, TPF, TRAVYS, TPC et TL (Transports publics de la région lausannoise SA) ont conclu que le maintien de l’indépendance vis-à-vis de l’industrie et le maintien des compétences au sein des compagnies passaient par la création d’un consortium en Suisse romande, doté d’une infrastructure ad hoc, permettant un entretien des bogies à des coûts concurrentiels, sous la forme d’un site unique de maintenance.

https://railtechsa.ch/

Daryo
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Serbian,

French
PRO pts in category: 24

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