May 2, 2008 14:08
16 yrs ago
7 viewers *
French term
rentier/retraité
French to English
Law/Patents
Finance (general)
form filling
Is there a difference between these 2 terms? I have them in a form, do I just put retired for one and pensioner for the other? many thanks
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | annuitant/retiree |
rkillings
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| 4 +4 | may be different |
Jennifer Levey
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| 4 -3 | You are right! |
Pierre POUSSIN
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| 2 -1 | no equivalent in the dico for rentier in EN... |
BusterK
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Change log
May 5, 2008 09:40: Steffen Walter changed "Term asked" from "Rentier/Retraité" to "rentier/retraité" , "Field" from "Other" to "Law/Patents" , "Field (specific)" from "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters" to "Finance (general)"
Proposed translations
3 hrs
Selected
annuitant/retiree
Commonest terms in the US ("pensioner" is not usual). Where not all retirees have pension benefits!
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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2008-05-03 20:42:47 GMT)
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Yes, anyone receiving an annuity for any reason, from any source, whether purchased directly by the annuitant or for him/her by a former employer to satisfy a pension obligation. Not exclusively military by any means.
Seems unlikely that a form would use an old-fashioned concept (rentier class) to identify a person of independent means as opposed to one literally the beneficiary of a rente.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2008-05-03 22:30:20 GMT)
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A retiree may also be an annuitant. A deceased retiree's spouse receiving a survivor annuity benefit (to take the obvious example) will be an annuitant but need not be a retiree -- at all, or from the standpoint of the pension plan.
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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2008-05-03 20:42:47 GMT)
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Yes, anyone receiving an annuity for any reason, from any source, whether purchased directly by the annuitant or for him/her by a former employer to satisfy a pension obligation. Not exclusively military by any means.
Seems unlikely that a form would use an old-fashioned concept (rentier class) to identify a person of independent means as opposed to one literally the beneficiary of a rente.
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2008-05-03 22:30:20 GMT)
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A retiree may also be an annuitant. A deceased retiree's spouse receiving a survivor annuity benefit (to take the obvious example) will be an annuitant but need not be a retiree -- at all, or from the standpoint of the pension plan.
Note from asker:
| I had excluded the term "annuitant" as it's not common in BR English. However, I 've now done a google search for retiree / annuitant and it seems to be widely used in the US. But most of the sites seem to be military-related; does it have a wider use, as in anyone receiving an annuity for whatever reason? thanks for your help |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks for your help. "
-3
5 mins
Pierre POUSSIN
France
France
Native in French
France
Fast and accurate.
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France) 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Latin to French, and 2 more.
You are right!
A retiree is just a retired person who has no longer a job (too old!). He generally has a pension.
A pensioner may be a retiree too, does not work, but gets money from banks (dividends etc...)
A pensioner may be a retiree too, does not work, but gets money from banks (dividends etc...)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
sueaberwoman
: Actually, in some cases a retiree (US anyway) and retraité (France) can draw both a pension and a salary by being employed in a different job. And what about rentier?
10 mins
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Not the rentier! I am a retired person, but not a rentier! ;-)
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| disagree |
BusterK
: un rentier est titulaire d'une rente (autrefois) et reçoit en conséquence de l'argent à raison de cet actif (la rente). Le retraité, qui peut effectivement avoir encore activité, touche une pension au titre de son travail passé et est "pensioner".
15 mins
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Le rentier peut, même maintenant, vivre de ses rentes! Le retraité est parfois (c'est mon cas!) être un OAP! Je crois que vous êtes un peu raide sur le "disagree" but if I am being...busted, let it be!
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| disagree |
Jennifer Levey
: Your answer refers only to 'retiree' and 'pensioner', which are the same thing. What about the 'rentier'?
23 mins
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I shall let the dipteran fly... Sorry to disturb! ;-)
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| disagree |
Tony M
: Sorry, but 'rentier' is something quite different, and one really shouldn't give the false impression they are the same thing
1 hr
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| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: Your definition of a pensioner "getting money from banks..." is a nonsense: many pensioners are totally dependent on State pensions
2 hrs
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| agree |
Jack Dunwell
: Actually, I agree with your first idea "Remittance Man" What's a dipteran, please?And, while you're at it, Bend Over!
6 hrs
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Thnaks... but you are taking risks! Tony knows better!!!
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-1
24 mins
no equivalent in the dico for rentier in EN...
Pension is not the same as "rente". The key difference is that, if the retiree receives a pension, it is due to its past services.
Whereas the "rentier" possibly never worked and purchased, inherited or whatsoever, a financial asset that entitled him to financial income. He is the owner of financial assets whereas the retiree has no ownership on any asset.
Whereas the "rentier" possibly never worked and purchased, inherited or whatsoever, a financial asset that entitled him to financial income. He is the owner of financial assets whereas the retiree has no ownership on any asset.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: Try a different dico... (see below...)
2 mins
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there are explanation but not a one-word equivalent. that's all I meant...
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| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: There is always a way to translate, whatever the dicos. say - BusterK, this is most unlike you...
2 hrs
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+4
24 mins
Jennifer Levey
Chile
Chile
Native in English
Chile
Human-scale Globalization
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
32
may be different
J.O. Kettridge Dico of commercial and financial terms, phrases and practice (1978 ed.):
rentier (1): possesseur de fonds publics ..> stockholder, fund-holder, investor (en)
rentier (2): personne qui à une annuité --> annuintant (en)
rentier (3): pesonne qui vit uniquement de ses rentes; ..> person of independent means (en)
retraité --> pensioner (en)
In Switzerland, 'retraité' refers to anyone who has withdrawn ceased their professional activities having reached a certain age; a 'rentier' is anyone who receives a 'rente' - which may be a disability allowance, widow(er)s pension, etc.
One significant practical difference is that a retraité /pensioner is (almost always) aged 50 or more (depending on the country's retirement age). A 'rentier' can be of any age (an orphaned baby can be a 'rentier' - at least in Switzerland).
rentier (1): possesseur de fonds publics ..> stockholder, fund-holder, investor (en)
rentier (2): personne qui à une annuité --> annuintant (en)
rentier (3): pesonne qui vit uniquement de ses rentes; ..> person of independent means (en)
retraité --> pensioner (en)
In Switzerland, 'retraité' refers to anyone who has withdrawn ceased their professional activities having reached a certain age; a 'rentier' is anyone who receives a 'rente' - which may be a disability allowance, widow(er)s pension, etc.
One significant practical difference is that a retraité /pensioner is (almost always) aged 50 or more (depending on the country's retirement age). A 'rentier' can be of any age (an orphaned baby can be a 'rentier' - at least in Switzerland).
Note from asker:
| I really liked "person of private/independent means, but went for "annuitant" considering it was for the US market. Thanks for all the help and the references |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
emiledgar
: yes, a retraité is a retired person, a rentier is a person of private means; no one word expression in English.
16 mins
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| agree |
Tony M
: Yes; for example, a rentier might be involved in a life annuity sale of a house. I don't believe a one-word solution will be possible in your context
1 hr
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| agree |
B D Finch
: And with emiledgar's "a person of private means" for rentier.
2 hrs
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| agree |
sporran
8 hrs
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Discussion