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"Les vibrations exacerbées de la vie"
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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

mémoire

English translation:

for the record, for your information, TBA (to be announced)

Added to glossary by suewiddicombe
Jul 7, 2012 21:21
12 yrs ago
62 viewers *
French term

mémoire

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Inheritance law
I know there are plenty of translations for the word mémoire but what does it mean in this context?

It's a bill for legal fees:

"Débourses:
Droit de correspondance 38.00 €
Droit de papeterie € 23,00
Photocopies Etude € 100,00
Gross ***Mémoire***
Signification ***Mémoire***"

The word mémoire appearing in the cost column under the amounts in euros.
I'm SURE it CAN'T be free of charge...
Any suggestions most welcome - thanks in advance
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 for the record, for your information
5 bill of costs
4 brief
4 conclusions
3 case file/case paper
3 -1 memoir
References
Signification Mémoire

Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jul 8, 2012:
Apologies for the previous post. Have a look at my new suggestion, posted as a separate answer, in order to see how this might be read quite differently, and nothing at all to do with conclusions, the filing of briefs or docuemnts of any sort under the CPC. Simply a shorthand form - maybe - for "pour mémoire". Again, basing that on the fact that it appears in the € column. To avoid crystal ball gazing, it might be worth checking that with your client. It is not the mémoire, just the ordinary phrase "pour mémoire" whcih makes sense in that column. I have this in a fee note/bill of costs from an avocat I have had reason to instruct. Also explains what the term is doing in the € column.

Also means that "grosse" and "signification" do not relate necessarily to conclusions for example but to other documents which have been filed also.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jul 8, 2012:
You should not add something that is not in the original. To add "to be charged" would be adding a detail which is not without significance. It has the potential to cause arguments. Perhaps these items have not been billed, perhaps they have already been billed. This is crystal ball stuff and adding such extra details is not poetic licence, it would be a mistake. There are any number of explanations. you might be right in supposing the reason for no cost being stated, but it is just that: pure supposition. As a client, I'd be cross if a translator did that and would start to worry about the existence of other expressions of creativity! It is a smiple matter of asking the client whether something is missing. If you cannot ask the client, then you have no way of knowing.
suewiddicombe (asker) Jul 8, 2012:
I think Brigitte is definitely on the right track - it makes sense. I'll just call it "to be charged" (in due course). Can we transcribe it into the French to English so others can profit in future?
BrigitteHilgner Jul 8, 2012:
a kind of reminder ... that there will be charges but that they are not yet included in this invoice.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_german/law_general/81160...
At least this is the interpretation provided in the kudoz answer (French-> German) mentioned above.
Alison Sparks (X) Jul 8, 2012:
@Sue I remeber seeing this once when my employer was taking action against a late payer. Fees had to be paid up front, and a statement of the breakdown was sent "pour mémoire" for the accounts. At the end of the process the final bill was laid out in a similar way to your example. Unfortunately I don't have access to the archives so can't check, but think cc's guess is not far off, or perhaps 'previous statement' works.
suewiddicombe (asker) Jul 8, 2012:
Sorry, it's not Gross but Grosse and refers to the authentic copy (which is the whole text I have translated). But whereas stationery, for example, costs 23 euros and correspondence costs 38 euros, preparation of the authentic copy costs "mémoire" and notification costs "mémoire". So how much is mémoire??
suewiddicombe (asker) Jul 8, 2012:
Hi cc, thanks for taking the trouble to think about this but, as I probably didn't explain well enough, Gross and Signification are in the left-hand column under stationery, fixed fees, etc. while mémoire is in the right-hand column under the list of costs in euros. This is what is stumping me. I simply want to know HOW MUCH it represents since it is in the column of costs. It's in a table with two columns, the left-hand one listing the items to be charged and the right-hand column listing the prices and ending in a total. Mémoire is listed in the right-hand column with the prices.
cc in nyc Jul 8, 2012:
@ suewiddicombe From the comments that you posted on our answers, it appears that you aren't looking for the term "mémoire" (which you seem to understand), but rather two separate terms: "Gross Mémoire" and "Signification Mémoire." But that was not clear from the outset!

Is "Gross" possibly a family name? (already asked by Daryo)

BTW, you probably should have posted two questions. With two terms, it will get sticky when posting a glossary entry.
Daryo Jul 7, 2012:
two possible terms here -- Signification (du mémoire)
-- la grosse (d'un mémoire) - but that doesn't make much sense as "la grosse" can refer only to a final decision ("exécutoire")
Daryo Jul 7, 2012:
la grosse La "grosse" est le nom donné à la copie d'une décision de justice ou d'un acte notarié comportant la formule exécutoire. Elle est apposée par le Greffier de la juridiction qui a rendu la décision ou par le notaire qui a dresé l'acte contenant une reconnaissance de dette.

Cette formule dont le texte résulte des dispositions du décret n°47-1047 du 12 juin 1947, contient un ordre adressé aux forces de l'ordre d'avoir à prêter main forte à l'huissier qui, à la demande de la partie qui a eu gain de cause, est chargé par ce dernier de procéder à des actes d'exécution sur les biens du débiteur.

Le nom de "grosse" proviendrait de ce qu'à l'époque où les documents de justice étaient rédigés avec une plume d'oie, les commis des Greffiers et des Notaires étaient payés au rôle, de sorte que leur rémunération étaient d'autant plus élevée que la copie était longue. Ils avaient donc tout intérêt à écrire en grosses lettres. On parlait alors d'" écritures grossoyées".

Voir les mots : "Brevet", "Copie", Expédition", "Minute" et "Notaire".

[http://www.juritravail.com/lexique/Grosse.html]
Daryo Jul 7, 2012:
Gross Mémoire "Gross" is not French; is it someone's name?
Daryo Jul 7, 2012:
Signification Mémoire would mean sending/depositing with the Court Clerck ("signification") the case file - the "Mémoire", so "Signification Mémoire" would have to be found next a figure of the total cost of preparing and sending it.

Proposed translations

+2
13 hrs
French term (edited): pour (?) mémoire
Selected

for the record, for your information

In context, I think I have been completemy missing the point here. If I am right with this second suggestion, then we have all been missing the point!
You term appear in the column concerning the cost.
"mémoire" is probably short for "pour mémoire" here, in which case, it means for your information, for the record, something along those lines.
Nothing at all, but nothing at all to do with conclusions and so on. Barking up the wrong tree totally... I think?! ;-)))

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2012-07-08 11:02:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Might also be translated as "TBA" (to be announced), "to follow" if they have not yet been invoiced as the engrossment and various other documents still remain to be filed, ldoged and/or invoiced (or indeed have been already), which ties in with wat others have suggested already.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad
2 days 4 hrs
agree cc in nyc
4 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I actually used TBA which fits admirably. Will add a comment if I get flack from the client..."
-1
35 mins

memoir

.
Peer comment(s):
disagree cc in nyc : legal terminology is required in this context
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

case file/case paper

only in this context

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-07-07 23:10:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

case papers
Note from asker:
Yes, but the word "mémoire" appears under the column listing the costs that are going to be charged to the lawyer's clients. The other amounts are in euros. How much does "mémoire" represent?
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

brief

In the legal context...

brief
1) n. a written legal argument, usually in a format prescribed by the courts, stating the legal reasons for the suit based on statutes, regulations, case precedents, legal texts, and reasoning applied to facts in the particular situation. [...]
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=100
Note from asker:
Thanks, cc, I know this but do not understand how it fits in a bill of costs.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

bill of costs

Bill of costs or detailed expenses. Memoire is referring to mémoire de frais. See references.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2012-07-08 01:57:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Gross would refer to Gross expenses or Gross Bill of Costs. Signification -- as per my research on the Web -- refers to Service in the legal context. So Signfication Memoire refers to Service Expenses or Bill of Costs for Service.
Reference:

http://www.linguee.fr/anglais-francais/traduction/bill+of+costs+.html

http://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/traduction/m%E9moire+de+frais.html

Note from asker:
Thanks, Gurudutt, but a grosse in this context is an authentic copy and signification is the notification (of the summons or other) so, in a bill of costs, under the column for the costs in euros, how much does "mémoire" represent?
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

conclusions

http://www.juritravail.com/lexique/Memoire.html

Un "mémoire" est un document écrit adressé à une autorité, voire à une juridiction, pour exposer une situation et faire valoir des moyens juridiques destinés à l'obtention d'un droit ou d'un avantage en relation avec la situation qui y a été exposée.
Les avocats à la Cour de Cassation ne déposent pas des "conclusions" mais des "mémoires".

Textes :
CPC, art. 978 et s.

And http://www.dictionnaire-juridique.com/definition/memoire.php

http://legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=D2BE01111...

Article 978 En savoir plus sur cet article...
Modifié par Décret n°2010-1647 du 28 décembre 2010 - art. 15
A peine de déchéance constatée par ordonnance du premier président ou de son délégué, le demandeur en cassation doit, au plus tard dans le délai de quatre mois à compter du pourvoi, remettre au greffe de la Cour de cassation un mémoire contenant les moyens de droit invoqués contre la décision attaquée. Le mémoire doit, sous la même sanction, être notifié dans le même délai aux avocats des autres parties. Si le défendeur n'a pas constitué avocat, le mémoire doit lui être signifié au plus tard dans le mois suivant l'expiration de ce délai ; cependant, si, entre-temps, le défendeur constitue avocat avant la signification du mémoire, il est procédé par voie de notification à son avocat.

A peine d'être déclaré d'office irrecevable un moyen ou un élément de moyen ne doit mettre en oeuvre qu'un seul cas d'ouverture. Chaque moyen ou chaque élément de moyen doit préciser, sous la même sanction :

- le cas d'ouverture invoqué ;

- la partie critiquée de la décision ;

- ce en quoi celle-ci encourt le reproche allégué.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2012-07-07 23:22:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You might even consider using the French term in italics.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2012-07-08 10:08:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hello Sue,
Sorry, I had misunderstood your question asking what "mémoire" means in this context. If I understand you rightly now, then it is not a translation question at all, rather a sort of why and wherefor question.
If what you really need to know is what it is doing in a bill of costs, then you need to contact your client to find out.
Maybe there is an ethical requirement to list everything that is done in the procédure whether invoiced or not. Maybe they forgot to charge for these two particular items. In either event, you can only obtain a sure answer from the client.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2012-07-08 10:48:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hang on a minute. I think I may have missed something...
You say the word "mémoire" appears in the column under the amount with the price. I think I've been missing the point entirely! Sorry!!!
In this case, this may actually be meaning "POUR mémoire".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2012-07-08 10:49:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Pour mémoire, : for the record, for your information.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Nikki, I understand what a mémoire is (thanks anyway for the extra info) but what does it mean in a bill of costs? It must refer to a price or to a place where the price can be found or is included. The context is my problem.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Signification Mémoire

"A défaut de remise ou de signification du mémoire dans le délai prévu à l'alinéa 1er de l'article 978, la déchéance est constatée par ordonnance du premier président ou de son délégué."
from:
CODE DE PROCEDURE CIVILE
PROCEDURE AVEC REPRESENTATION OBLIGATOIRE

[http://www.lexinter.net/NCPC/procedure_avec_representation_o...]
Something went wrong...
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