This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Jun 26, 2013 09:54
11 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
Fast and Accurate
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, French to English, Italian to English, and 1 more.
ce qui se dérobe de ce en quoi il se donne
French to English
Social Sciences
Philosophy
Phenomenology
From a text about Husserl's philosophy:
Nous nommerons désormais monde cela qui apparaît en toute apparition sans jamais apparaître lui-même, cela qui s'absente de tout ce qui le présente.
La question est alors de savoir pour qui il y a un tel monde, c'est-à-dire quel est le sens d'être du sujet de la corrélation. Il va de soi en effet que, en vertu du statut même de la corrélation, le sujet est sinon la condition en tout le cas le destinataire de l'apparaître et doit donc exister sur un mode tel qu'il soit capable d'accueillir la transcendance pure de l'apparaissant : à travers ses apparitions, c'est bien au monde que s'ouvre la sujet, c'est vers sa profondeur qu'il se porte. La question est, en d'autres termes, celle du statut d'une intentionnalité visant cela qui déborde toute apparition, se rapportant à ***ce qui se dérobe toujours de ce en quoi il se donne***.
Nous nommerons désormais monde cela qui apparaît en toute apparition sans jamais apparaître lui-même, cela qui s'absente de tout ce qui le présente.
La question est alors de savoir pour qui il y a un tel monde, c'est-à-dire quel est le sens d'être du sujet de la corrélation. Il va de soi en effet que, en vertu du statut même de la corrélation, le sujet est sinon la condition en tout le cas le destinataire de l'apparaître et doit donc exister sur un mode tel qu'il soit capable d'accueillir la transcendance pure de l'apparaissant : à travers ses apparitions, c'est bien au monde que s'ouvre la sujet, c'est vers sa profondeur qu'il se porte. La question est, en d'autres termes, celle du statut d'une intentionnalité visant cela qui déborde toute apparition, se rapportant à ***ce qui se dérobe toujours de ce en quoi il se donne***.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
3 hrs
Helen Hagon
Native in English
Specializes in field
Perfectly polished prose
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: Russian to English, French to English
Something which always shies away from that to which it is devoted
This is just one suggestion. Alternatively:
'Something which forever casts off that to which it is dedicated'
It is a complex and interesting concept, though, and there are probably many other possible (and better!) solutions.
'Something which forever casts off that to which it is dedicated'
It is a complex and interesting concept, though, and there are probably many other possible (and better!) solutions.
+1
5 hrs
which hides itself from how it actually appears
Declined
Hello,
There is perhaps a contradiction:
ce en quoi il se donne = how it is represented ?
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/se_donner/2644...
There is perhaps a contradiction:
ce en quoi il se donne = how it is represented ?
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/se_donner/2644...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Wolf Draeger
: Our answers are similar, so I agree to some extent, pending a better understanding of the text on my part :-)
3 hrs
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Thank you, Wolf! I appreciate it. Have a nice evening.
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9 hrs
Wolf Draeger
South Africa
South Africa
Native in English
Specializes in field
South Africa
Say the word!
Native in: English (Variants: South African, US, UK)
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
that which conceals itself [prep.] how it reveals itself
I'm not familiar with Husserl or his philosophy, and this is quite a meaty text, but here's my shot at it.
The use of "de" in se dérobe de puzzles me a bit. Could it be bad grammar (d'habitude, on se dérobe à qqn./qqch.), or is the author trying to say that the world conceals itself through how it reveals itself; i.e. its appearances hide its true nature? So, I'm unsure as to whether to say "conceals itself 'from' or 'through/by'", which of course changes the meaning considerably.
The use of "de" in se dérobe de puzzles me a bit. Could it be bad grammar (d'habitude, on se dérobe à qqn./qqch.), or is the author trying to say that the world conceals itself through how it reveals itself; i.e. its appearances hide its true nature? So, I'm unsure as to whether to say "conceals itself 'from' or 'through/by'", which of course changes the meaning considerably.
Example sentence:
In other words, the question is that of the status of an intention aiming at that which goes beyond all appearances, in relation with that which conceals itself from how it reveals itself.
In other words, the question is that of the status of an intention aiming at that which goes beyond all appearances, in relation with that which conceals itself by how it reveals itself.
1 day 1 hr
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English
Works in: French to English
Husserl's theory of intentionality
Declined
Evasiveness, evasion and the scope of Husserl's theory of intentionality.
La question est, en d'autres termes, celle du statut d'une intentionnalité visant cela qui déborde toute apparition, se rapportant à ***ce qui se dérobe toujours de ce en quoi il se donne***
I have no problem with the « de » : ce qui se dérobe… de ce en quoi… ».
In other words, the issue is that of the status of an intentionality aimed at that which exceeds [goes beyond] any apparition, in relation to that which always escapes from [that in which] how [the way in which] it is given.
When you search this doc, with "intentionality" and "escape" a couple of phrases will get your mind into this dilemma!
http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~hdreyfus/188_s05/pdf/Carma...
This may help too : http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/intentionality/
Intentionality is the power of minds to be about, to represent, or to stand for, things, properties and states of affairs. The puzzles of intentionality lie at the interface between the philosophy of mind and the philosophy of language. The word itself, which is of medieval Scholastic origin, was rehabilitated by the philosopher Franz Brentano towards the end of the nineteenth century. ‘Intentionality’ is a philosopher's word. It derives from the Latin word intentio, which in turn derives from the verb intendere, which means being directed towards some goal or thing. The entry falls into eleven sections: [...]
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2013-06-27 11:21:23 GMT)
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You don't say how you are understanding "apparition" : appearance? apparition? The mind / body problem takes you onto another planet!
La question est, en d'autres termes, celle du statut d'une intentionnalité visant cela qui déborde toute apparition, se rapportant à ***ce qui se dérobe toujours de ce en quoi il se donne***
I have no problem with the « de » : ce qui se dérobe… de ce en quoi… ».
In other words, the issue is that of the status of an intentionality aimed at that which exceeds [goes beyond] any apparition, in relation to that which always escapes from [that in which] how [the way in which] it is given.
When you search this doc, with "intentionality" and "escape" a couple of phrases will get your mind into this dilemma!
http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~hdreyfus/188_s05/pdf/Carma...
This may help too : http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/intentionality/
Intentionality is the power of minds to be about, to represent, or to stand for, things, properties and states of affairs. The puzzles of intentionality lie at the interface between the philosophy of mind and the philosophy of language. The word itself, which is of medieval Scholastic origin, was rehabilitated by the philosopher Franz Brentano towards the end of the nineteenth century. ‘Intentionality’ is a philosopher's word. It derives from the Latin word intentio, which in turn derives from the verb intendere, which means being directed towards some goal or thing. The entry falls into eleven sections: [...]
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2013-06-27 11:21:23 GMT)
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You don't say how you are understanding "apparition" : appearance? apparition? The mind / body problem takes you onto another planet!
2 days 18 hrs
Melissa McMahon
Australia
Australia
Native in English
Specializes in field
Australia
Related KudoZ points
:
86
eludes the form it gives itself through
The idea is that the world (or any object) gives itself to the subject through appearances, but appearances are always appearances *of* something that doesn't itself appear. So we never actually grasp the real "object" in the phenomena that is also the only vehicle through which the object can be grasped - it "se dérobe de ce en quoi il se donne" - "eludes what it gives itself through".
The issue is how to put it in English of course - I suggest explicitating the "what" as "form", which I think is a safe choice.
The issue is how to put it in English of course - I suggest explicitating the "what" as "form", which I think is a safe choice.
Discussion
I apologize for not choosing any of your answers. I still don't quite understand what the author is talking about, so I'm at a loss as to how to go about choosing the best answer. In the end, I asked a more knowledgeable colleague to do the entire translation. Thanks for your input!