Apr 30, 2006 07:14
18 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term
Gruftgewölbe
German to English
Tech/Engineering
Architecture
St. Michaelis
Das ***Gruftgewölbe*** unter dem Kirchenschiff von St. Michaelis zählt zu den größten in Europa. Hier liegen neben vielen anderen Hamburgern auch Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach und der Erbauer der Kirche, Ernst Georg Sonnin, begraben.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +3 | Vaulted crypt |
David Moore (X)
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| 4 +3 | crypt |
Henry Schroeder
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| 4 +3 | crypt vault |
F Schultze (X)
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| 4 | Arched Vault or Vault |
lindaellen (X)
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| 3 | vaulted grave |
BrigitteHilgner
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Change log
May 31, 2006 17:34: Ian M-H (X) changed "Field" from "Other" to "Tech/Engineering" , "Field (specific)" from "Tourism & Travel" to "Architecture"
Proposed translations
+3
8 hrs
Selected
Vaulted crypt
The writer has a strange way of expressinghimself; in German, the term actually means "crypt vaulting", or the ceiling/roofing of the crypt as the series of arches covering it. However, when you read further, it appears that the writer actually means the "vaulted crypt", of which there are numerous examples on the web. I feel you would be invited to "visit the vaulted crypt" in English, rather than "the crypt vaulting", which after all is only a feature of the crypt, and has little to do with the tombs actually located there...
In fact, in church terms, the words "crypt" and "vault" are almost synonymous, as meaning a burial chamber, but beware! The word "vault*ED*" means "provided (a building) with an arched roof or ceiling". See Chambers 21st Century Dictionary.
In fact, in church terms, the words "crypt" and "vault" are almost synonymous, as meaning a burial chamber, but beware! The word "vault*ED*" means "provided (a building) with an arched roof or ceiling". See Chambers 21st Century Dictionary.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Nicole Y. Adams, M.A.
: I like this solution best
42 mins
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| agree |
Teresa Reinhardt
1 hr
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| agree |
Ian M-H (X)
31 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Danke schoen"
24 mins
BrigitteHilgner
Austria
Austria
Native in German
Austria
b2b/economics/marketing/market research/
Native in: German 
Works in: German to English, French to German, English to German
Related KudoZ points
:
41
vaulted grave
To stress that it's not only a crypt but meant for burials.
Suffiient google hits.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 09:14:22 GMT)
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"tomb vault" is also used for such burial places in churches, see for example:
http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her/details.asp?prn=54600
Suffiient google hits.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 09:14:22 GMT)
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"tomb vault" is also used for such burial places in churches, see for example:
http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her/details.asp?prn=54600
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
David Moore (X)
: To me, "tomb vault" is not correct use of English; most of the sites where the words appear together, they are spearated by a comma. Those where they are not are mostly Chinese...
9 hrs
|
+3
2 hrs
Henry Schroeder
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
20 years of experience, certified, ATA
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: German to English, Russian to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
43
crypt
That's all they use at this website:
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:uTP5h6oiE4AJ:travel.msn....
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 09:30:11 GMT)
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for St. Michael's in Hamburg with Bach buried there:
The top attractions
Hauptkirche St. Michaelis (St. Michael's Church): This baroque church is Hamburg's favorite landmark. Take the elevator or climb the 449 steps to the top of the hammered-copper tower for a sweeping view. The crypt, one of the largest in Europe, contains the tombs of famous citizens including Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach. An audiovisual show tells the history of the city. (See website above)
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:uTP5h6oiE4AJ:travel.msn....
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 09:30:11 GMT)
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for St. Michael's in Hamburg with Bach buried there:
The top attractions
Hauptkirche St. Michaelis (St. Michael's Church): This baroque church is Hamburg's favorite landmark. Take the elevator or climb the 449 steps to the top of the hammered-copper tower for a sweeping view. The crypt, one of the largest in Europe, contains the tombs of famous citizens including Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach. An audiovisual show tells the history of the city. (See website above)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
F Schultze (X)
: As I said, just "crypt" may sound better, but it does not convey the full meaning of the original text.
21 mins
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A legitimate objection
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| agree |
Teresa Reinhardt
7 hrs
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| neutral |
David Moore (X)
: Thank you Henry; I found that; now, how do we know what the writer of that site has actually translated anyway? If you say "the St Michaelis site", I say it's incorrect...
7 hrs
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David, yeah, it's a stupid website, that's why I quoted it above. You need to go to the bottom of the website and click on "page 2" or next. Then you'll come to it.
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| agree |
archtrans
: Okay, to be fair, shouldn't Flemming get the points, since he did suggest crypt by itself first? : )
2 days 19 hrs
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9 mins
Arched Vault or Vault
The picture on the St. Michaelis website shows an arched vault.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 09:31:25 GMT)
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You are right. On second thought I would use either just plain "crypt" or just plain "vault". The German had only 637 Google hits, which means that it is not used all that often, and seems to me a bit "over the top" anyway.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 09:31:25 GMT)
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You are right. On second thought I would use either just plain "crypt" or just plain "vault". The German had only 637 Google hits, which means that it is not used all that often, and seems to me a bit "over the top" anyway.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
F Schultze (X)
: Linda, I believe a vault is arched by definition.
1 hr
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| neutral |
archtrans
: well, there are barrel vaults, which are sort of extruded arches.. I think vault is added to suggest a pointed (gothic) style.
2 days 21 hrs
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+3
7 mins
crypt vault
or just crypt
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-04-30 08:25:34 GMT)
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http://www.timeref.com/glossa.htm
http://www.four-courts-press.ie/review_cc.htm
http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/arch/staff/sites/tarbat/bulletin...
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 10:05:18 GMT)
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Just "crypt" may sound better, but if the author says Gruftgewölbe I think he wants to stress that it is vaulted, or else he would have written just "Gruft".
You could also have a Flachdach Gruft:
http://www.virtualani.org/horomos/index2.htm
My humble opinion in summary:
Gruft = crypt
Gruftgewölbe = crypt vault (or vaulted crypt)
Flachdach Gruft = crypt with a flat ceiling
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-04-30 08:25:34 GMT)
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http://www.timeref.com/glossa.htm
http://www.four-courts-press.ie/review_cc.htm
http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/arch/staff/sites/tarbat/bulletin...
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-04-30 10:05:18 GMT)
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Just "crypt" may sound better, but if the author says Gruftgewölbe I think he wants to stress that it is vaulted, or else he would have written just "Gruft".
You could also have a Flachdach Gruft:
http://www.virtualani.org/horomos/index2.htm
My humble opinion in summary:
Gruft = crypt
Gruftgewölbe = crypt vault (or vaulted crypt)
Flachdach Gruft = crypt with a flat ceiling
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
archtrans
: I think crypt makes the most sense. It is common for tombs to be placed in crypts, and for crypts to be built under cathedral naves.
1 hr
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| agree |
Henry Schroeder
: crypt, but not crypt vault. See below.
2 hrs
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Thank you Henry, I agree, just "crypt" sounds better, but maybe the author wants to stress that it is vaulted, or he would have said just Gruft.
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| agree |
Ingeborg Gowans (X)
: crypt
9 hrs
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| neutral |
David Moore (X)
: "Crypt" and "vault" are synonymous in this context; had you said "vault*ING*, I would have had no cause for comment. But you do NOT have "vaults" all over a church...
9 hrs
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Not so. You have Gewölbe/vaults all over the church. The Gruft/crypt is normally only in the basement. But if you were right, "vaulted crypt" would also be a pleonasm. Whatever. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=vault...
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Discussion