| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Why I am NOT a Proz member. Thread poster: David Wigtil
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| Quite realistic, actually | Nov 21, 2008 |
Rad Graban wrote:
And my appology to the poster of this thread for straying from the original topic in the first place, but couldn't resist to object to such a nonsence.
If you're always this careful with your spelling, I can understand why you haven't had such experiences. But they do indeed happen. I've been pestered enough times on a single day by one client with enough jobs to be considered a "series". And a few thousand dollars really isn't that much - jobs like this pass through agencies all the time, and if you do good work on a Monday and Tuesday a big project comes in and all the regulars are booked out, it will probably be your job. As for waiting a couple of days, well sometimes clients call back the same day with songs of praise and a demand that future work be done by THAT translator. I've seen it happen and not just to me.
But hey, each of us has his own path to success. A ProZ membership can be part of it or not. I've seen much better translators than me in my language pair who are full members here and hardly ever get profile contacts (though they do damned well off their responses to job posts, probably bagging at least half the jobs they bid on at good rates). It's all a matter of what you choose to emphasize and how well you do it. But there are enough active and passive ways to benefit from membership that it's hard not to get a good ROI. But as you pointed out in the previous thread you referenced, none of that interests you. If someone is incredibly busy and not in need of work, subscribes to Payment Practices, uses the Zahlungsmoral list or otherwise has means of checking out whether a potential client might be a deadbeat, then that person obviously does not "need" a membership. It still might be nice, but if the cup is full, pouring more will only make a mess on the table. If someone is looking to increase their business as part of a proven network, then ProZ is simply the best option of its type. Even so, it's not the only way to get to the goal or even the best way in the long term necessarily, but it's a fairly easy path to take with a lot of good companions for the journey.
Now it's time to pick the slivers of glass out of my feet and get back to work....
| | | | Elías Sauza 
Mexico
Local time: 07:08
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
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| It was just an example of what Proz.com can do for one | Nov 21, 2008 |
This does make sense:
1. The client asks you to complete a short text.
2. You check the BB record (which has an average of 5 from many entries) and complete the test.
3. The client accepts your test and reviews and approves your Proz.com background for the upcoming job.
4. The client sends a first job of medium size which takes you one or two days.
5. The client approves your translation.
6. The clients sends you more jobs (not for the next day or two) ... See more This does make sense:
1. The client asks you to complete a short text.
2. You check the BB record (which has an average of 5 from many entries) and complete the test.
3. The client accepts your test and reviews and approves your Proz.com background for the upcoming job.
4. The client sends a first job of medium size which takes you one or two days.
5. The client approves your translation.
6. The clients sends you more jobs (not for the next day or two) for the following week.
That makes sense to me. One does not have to translate a huge number of words in a short period of time at a low rate to call it worth thousands od dollars. It can be a considerable amount of work to be done at good rates.
I'm sure there are plenty of such good real experiences out there.
[Edited at 2008-11-21 23:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rad Graban (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:08
English to Slovak
+ ...
| One last comment | Nov 21, 2008 |
Kevin Lossner wrote:
I've been pestered enough times on a single day by one client with enough jobs to be considered a "series".
And there is no doubt it was a new client for whom you had done your first job through ProZ.com the day before.
[Edited at 2008-11-21 23:33 GMT]
Kevin Lossner wrote:
If you're always this careful with your spelling, I can understand why you haven't had such experiences.
I am still learning (English is not my first language) but I'm hoping that by the time I reach your age, it will be perfect.
[Edited at 2008-11-21 23:53 GMT]
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 16:08
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
From my experience it often is the case. Actually, when receiving offers 1/3 of our starting price, I often and very politely redirect them to http://www.eurozonetranslations.com/ - http://www.eurozonetranslations.com/vindaloo.html subdirectory. (It's a joke site and I never found out the who... See more From my experience it often is the case. Actually, when receiving offers 1/3 of our starting price, I often and very politely redirect them to http://www.eurozonetranslations.com/ - http://www.eurozonetranslations.com/vindaloo.html subdirectory. (It's a joke site and I never found out the who owns it). But guess what- after that about 1/4th of applicants DO COME BACK to me and fully agree to my prices.
Side note to Astrid about payment reliability- during past few years we on average have had to default payments that will not ever be received in region of about EUR 500 yearly. On turnover of several hundred thousand a year that really doesn't make of a weather.
Uldis
Rad Graban wrote: Kevin Lossner wrote:
I've been pestered enough times on a single day by one client with enough jobs to be considered a "series". And there is no doubt it was a new client for whom you had done your first job through ProZ.com the day before. [Edited at 2008-11-21 23:33 GMT]
[Edited at 2008-11-22 00:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Thank you for that one, Uldis. I started laughing and choking so hard that my dog got really worried. The actual implementation of the sites could be better, but the concept is excellent. I'll have to refer "select" inquiries to them as well....
Doubt can be pretty addictive if you're in need of a good fix of excuses. What I find very interesting from my observations on ProZ of successful translators is the very diversity of the ways in which we make use of the platform. So my reasons for being a paying member aren't plausible. Good. Strike them from the list. Let's strike yours too - everyone knows that Latvia is on the edge of civilization and normal rules of business don't apply there. Our Mexican friend? Well, Spanish isn't a mainstream language, so obviously his experiences aren't relevant. Go down the list, strike off each one of the fools who waste the hundred dollars a year (why someone with Ralf's business sense would do that is beyond me, but he used to be a financial analyst or something like that and look what's happened to that industry - I'm sure he must be personally responsible). In the end you reveal what some have long suspected: a vast Internet conspiracy masterminded by that arch-capitalist Henry D., who has dedicated his life to destroying the once-lucrative profession of translation and bringing slavery to every major city and hamlet in the world. Oh, and did I mention that rates are dropping and next year we'll all be begging for jobs at two cents a word and eating our children to get a little protein in our diets so we can keep up our typing marathons?
Ah, if only we had listened and made use of this resource for free, we might have avoided the awful fate to which we are inexorably drawn.
| | | | Laura Tridico
United States
Local time: 09:08
French to English
+ ...
| Why is it so hard to believe you can be successful here? | Nov 22, 2008 |
I'm with Kevin and the others - most of my work comes through contacts I've made through ProZ.com, and I certainly don't work for 0.04/word.
Most of my best clients contacted me directly through my listing, but I've received good work through job postings as well. One case in particular - I was a little slow last January so I checked the jobs board (something I don't do very often). I quoted on a legal job that sounded right up my alley - the agency quickly got back to me, and it t... See more I'm with Kevin and the others - most of my work comes through contacts I've made through ProZ.com, and I certainly don't work for 0.04/word.
Most of my best clients contacted me directly through my listing, but I've received good work through job postings as well. One case in particular - I was a little slow last January so I checked the jobs board (something I don't do very often). I quoted on a legal job that sounded right up my alley - the agency quickly got back to me, and it turned out to be a 40K word project. They'd previously assigned the project, but that person was suddenly unavailable and they needed to find someone qualified. I checked the BlueBoard, was satisfied with what I read and took a chance...
The project was interesting, I had the chance to network with a very good colleague (who was the assigned proofreader), I received subsequent projects, and I've received well over $12,000 in business this year through that one client. And yes, they paid on time - not a bad return on my membership fee...
Don't be so skeptical. There's definitely a bottom-feeding market but there's plenty of good work to be found (and it's easier to find when you're a member).
Laura ▲ Collapse
| | | | Niraja Nanjundan (X)
Local time: 18:38
German to English
| Three more reasons | Nov 22, 2008 |
I agree with Kevin Lossner, Laura and others on the benefits of membership, and would like to add three reasons of my own:
- ProZ.com is a great source of information and a way of keeping updated on the trends in the profession. Since joining my knowledge of things such as CAT tools has increased immensely, and I am grateful to all colleagues who share their knowledge and expertise.
- ProZ.com is *international.* I think the exposure to points of view and opinions from... See more I agree with Kevin Lossner, Laura and others on the benefits of membership, and would like to add three reasons of my own:
- ProZ.com is a great source of information and a way of keeping updated on the trends in the profession. Since joining my knowledge of things such as CAT tools has increased immensely, and I am grateful to all colleagues who share their knowledge and expertise.
- ProZ.com is *international.* I think the exposure to points of view and opinions from people across the globe is really valuable and enriching, especially knowing that at least professionally most of us agree on almost everything, in spite of our diverse cultural backgrounds.
- Of course, one can benefit from the above without paying membership, but over the years I have noticed that membership funds are continuously used to improve the resources and networking possibilities made available to us, and I'm willing to pay membership if funds are used to promote the first two reasons I have listed, and more.
[Edited at 2008-11-22 03:11 GMT]
[Edited at 2008-11-22 03:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kristina Kolic
Croatia
Local time: 15:08
English to Croatian
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SITE LOCALIZER | Kevin made a good point | Nov 22, 2008 |
Kevin Lossner wrote:
In the end you reveal what some have long suspected: a vast Internet conspiracy masterminded by that arch-capitalist Henry D., who has dedicated his life to destroying the once-lucrative profession of translation and bringing slavery to every major city and hamlet in the world. Oh, and did I mention that rates are dropping and next year we'll all be begging for jobs at two cents a word and eating our children to get a little protein in our diets so we can keep up our typing marathons?
Besides the words quoted above, which, I must confess, made my day, after all the points that Kevin made in this thread it is quite difficult to find anything pertinent to add. Everything has been said. We all have our reasons for being and remaining members of this site and we certainly share the same concerns.
Personally, I cannot say that I have benefited much from the jobs posted on the site, but the reason for that is that I did not apply for them because I was already overloaded and didn't have the time for that. However, the few jobs for which I applied and which were awarded to me did entirely pay off my subscription fees so far - the rates were decent and I received the payment in due time. Consequently, there is absolutely nothing to lose. On the contrary, the benefits are numerous -as indicated above in this thread by other ProZiens - and getting the most of the site depends only on your skills and on the time you are willing to dedicate to creating a good and complete profile on the site to present yourself to potential clients as a qualified and reliable partner.
It is true that many of the rates offered in the job posts are way below the standard rates in my language pairs, but the same could also be said for any other job in any other profession. There will always be those seeking for the cheapest possible rates and those ready to work for peanuts, but there will also always be others who appreciate and request a quality work and are ready to pay a decent price to get the job done by the book.
On the other hand, I certainly appreciate very much all other features and opportunities that ProZ provides to its members: networking, education, information and resources for translators. I agree that there is no perfect place on earth, but ProZ.com is definitely the best translators' workplace right now. And the efforts of the site staff to improve the site, which are noticeable every now and then through the introduction of new features tailored to the needs of ProZ members, certainly deserve a contribution from those who use it on a daily basis. In my country, we have to pay a TV subscription even if we do not watch it. Which makes it only fair to pay a membership fee if you actually find it worth to visit the site, use its features and get the most out of it.
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| Just one example | Nov 22, 2008 |
Among the clients that I met through ProZ, there is one who contacted me out of the blue after searching the directory, asking me to work with them on a largish project. Note that they didn't post a job - they searched the directory to find translators that seemed to fit the bill. That was 3 years ago. Since then, I have invoiced about $50,000 to that client. What's more, they systematically contact me for a certain subject matter for a certain client of theirs. This means I am getting better an... See more Among the clients that I met through ProZ, there is one who contacted me out of the blue after searching the directory, asking me to work with them on a largish project. Note that they didn't post a job - they searched the directory to find translators that seemed to fit the bill. That was 3 years ago. Since then, I have invoiced about $50,000 to that client. What's more, they systematically contact me for a certain subject matter for a certain client of theirs. This means I am getting better and better at working on that particular type of material. Thanks to that, I have become very productive in that field and now, when I work with them, I easily make $60 per hour. I am finishing off a two-month long project with them... Do the math.
I can't tell whether being a ProZ member is the factor that helped that client notice me, but they did find me through the directory, and right now, I'm on the first page in pretty much all my specializations in the directory for my geographical region. I wonder if that client would have found me had I not been a member (with a poorer directory placement).
I find it interesting that Kevin mentions search engine placement - I checked mine in several major engines, and I was surprised to see my name popping up all over the place for various search strings. But there again, if you don't carefully put your profile together and don't update it regularly, paying for membership is a waste of money.
ProZ is far from perfect, and I agree that the jobs posted here are either sad or ridiculous most of the time, at least to me. But membership has its advantages, and I was able to leverage that. But it's work in progress, and if you don't actively put your membership to your advantage, then it really is useless. This is not my favorite place to find jobs, but it sure is my favorite pickup spot.
The above is just one example - I have a bunch more success stories that originate from ProZ.
[Edited at 2008-11-22 17:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 15:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Forum not only for paying members | Nov 22, 2008 |
Bin Tiede wrote:
Don't you think it a bit asocial to post such a topic on a forum, which is largely participated by Proz.members?
The forum is participated in by paying and non-paying members. Nothing asocial about posting about your own kind.
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Bin Tiede wrote:
Don't you think it a bit asocial to post such a topic on a forum, which is largely participated by Proz.members?
What would happen to a non-translator, who tells us on the Proz.com forum, how happy he is not to be a translator?
My apologies, but I find this posting "asocial" at least, not to say offending, to the users.
I used to be a member and I haven't extended my membership this year for some reasons. David has expressed his opinion. Is it sin?
[Edited at 2008-11-22 13:16 GMT]
| | | | Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 09:08
Russian to English
+ ...
| Eurozonetranslations.com - worth the price of admission | Nov 22, 2008 |
I love it! That's (almost) worth the price of a Proz membership right there.
On other issues raised:
I have nowhere near the positive experience of Kevin and others. I know nothing about chemistry, am a relative beginner at IT, don't have a PhD in physics or a law degree. I am a "liberal arts" type, with inadequate ability to speak and write in my source languages. I am trying to build a customer base without prior experience of Internet-based translating, with all the diversity--or specialization--that requires; my experience hitherto has been confined to certain areas needed for my other work as an editor and journalist. So, it's a learning curve, and I'm making progress, although not as rapidly as I'd like.
On the question of jobs posted on Proz for bidding, I've started keeping a chart of the jobs I bid for and what comes out of it. Mostly nothing--most jobs, as others have said, come from people who seek me out. But I also notice that almost NONE of my bids are to agencies that I have previously made a bid to. In other words, a lot of agencies, at least in my language pairs, seem to post quite seldom. My suspicion is that they post when they're in a bind: their regular translators aren't available, or whatever, and they needed the work done yesterday. I have seen that happen when I turn down a job from a regular customer--I soon see a post on Proz for that job.
I keep bidding, but have become more selective about it. I figure in my position, it can't hurt, might help.
Susan
[Edited at 2008-11-22 13:46 GMT]
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 06:08
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Another success story | Nov 22, 2008 |
Within days after I signed up with ProZ.com, I replied to a job offer. They requested special skills - we were the perfect match. I did a fully paid test job - they fell in love (if I may say so), and they have - to avoid the math with currency exchange - paid for several brand-new cars since.
Clients started to keep coming in, I built up a network, colleagues started asking for my services, my company grew, I started asking colleagues for their services.
I don't care... See more Within days after I signed up with ProZ.com, I replied to a job offer. They requested special skills - we were the perfect match. I did a fully paid test job - they fell in love (if I may say so), and they have - to avoid the math with currency exchange - paid for several brand-new cars since.
Clients started to keep coming in, I built up a network, colleagues started asking for my services, my company grew, I started asking colleagues for their services.
I don't care what jobs are to be found on ProZ.com. The best jobs aren't advertised anyway, which shouldn't be much news to any professional, whatever business, right?
To consider ProZ.com merely a job exchange such as craigslist (can I say this in this forum?) is naive. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Juliana Brown
Israel
Local time: 09:08
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Most of my favourite clients (bless 'em) have found ME through the site, and frankly, I have received a decent amount of the jobs I (occasionally) quote on when they look interesting. My membership was paid for with the first job in less than 3 hours, so there goes that complaint.
However...the site has led to numerous wonderful and enriching discussions with colleagues, not to mention suggestions from them which have made me money, saved me money, and taught me lots, not to mention having... See more Most of my favourite clients (bless 'em) have found ME through the site, and frankly, I have received a decent amount of the jobs I (occasionally) quote on when they look interesting. My membership was paid for with the first job in less than 3 hours, so there goes that complaint.
However...the site has led to numerous wonderful and enriching discussions with colleagues, not to mention suggestions from them which have made me money, saved me money, and taught me lots, not to mention having them suggest me to THEIR clients for work (bless them too ). BUT- maybe I should drop the membership because frankly, it is often too tempting to talk to them when I should be working! Could Proz put in a control button for faithful members, something along the lines of "If you prove you've done at least 5000 words you can log on"? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Conditional logins | Nov 22, 2008 |
Juliana Starkman wrote:
Could Proz put in a control button for faithful members, something along the lines of "If you prove you've done at least 5000 words you can log on"?
Great idea! I hope you've file a support ticket with that suggestion!
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