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Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

Italietta preunitaria

English translation:

preunification Italietta

Added to glossary by Juliet Halewood (X)
Jul 1, 2007 16:53
17 yrs ago
Italian term

Italietta preunitaria

Italian to English Art/Literary History
Talking about industry in Italy at the end of the nineteenth/beginning of the twentieth century - Una nuova avventura si sta schiudendo nell’Italietta preunitaria che ancora stenta a riconoscere se stessa tra divisioni e recessione economica.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 preunification Italietta ("little Italy")
3 +2 Pre-unity embryo Italian state
4 +1 small-time pre-unification Italy
4 puny, ineffectual
3 pre-unit little Italy
2 +1 politically divided pre-unitary Italy
3 pseudo-Italian state prior to the its union

Discussion

Juliet Halewood (X) (asker) Jul 3, 2007:
Thanks to everyone for their input!
Giovanni Pizzati (X) Jul 1, 2007:
Italietta è un diminuitivo sarcastico e spregiativo, che non va tralasciato nella traduzione.
Umberto Cassano Jul 1, 2007:
Then ***Petit-bourgeois pre-unitary Italy*** could do but I doubt if there was a recognizable ***petit-bourgeois*** spirit before 1861, the social divide between the elite and the illitterate working class was enormous !
paolamonaco Jul 1, 2007:
spec. con iniz. maiusc., spreg., la società e lo stato italiani in quanto considerati di mentalità gretta, provinciale, piccolo borghese ...http://www.demauroparavia.it/61014 HTH
Juliet Halewood (X) (asker) Jul 1, 2007:
I'm not sure what to do with Italietta - whether to leave it Italian, just translate it as Italy, or something else. Today Italietta seems to have a negative meaning. Does it also here?
Umberto Cassano Jul 1, 2007:
Before 1861... if chronology is any clue ! Anyway, the text seems to imply that Italy is still politically divided in post-unitary period
Juliet Halewood (X) (asker) Jul 1, 2007:
I presume so, even though it doesn't actually say it.
Anthony Green Jul 1, 2007:
I take it it's referring to the period before 1871

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs
Selected

preunification Italietta ("little Italy")

Secondo il mio modesto parere, Italietta non va tradotto.

Modern Italy 1871-1995 2nd Edition - Paper
Description
The standard history of modern Italy, this text provides an analytical account of the political, economic and social history of Italy from unification to the present.
Table of Contents
1.Introduction.
PART ONE 1871-1887.
2.Italietta - a backward society?
3.The Liberal State.
4.The subversives.
PART TWO
5.The first crisis of the Liberal State 1887 - 1900.
6.The first 'economic miracle': industrialization and the economy 1896 -1914. 7.Politics in the end of Giolitti 1900-14.
http://www.pearson.ch/HigherEducation/History/Italy/1471/978...

Considerations of gender led in turn to discussions of class, as contemporary intellectuals opposed Puccini’s music as the embodiment of the vulgar, ‘feminised’ bourgeois culture represented by Prime Minister Giolitti’s Italietta.

http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=978052...

And, compared with Germany Italy was much less unified economically Italian ..... scorn the cautious foreign policy of Giolitti's Italietta (little Italy). ...
links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0888-7314(198922)13%3C10%3AICASIT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-8


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-07-01 20:03:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ho internet che va e viene...volevo dire che secondo me Italietta ha un significato politico e culturale ben preciso, intraducibile perché ogni resa sarebbe riduttiva.
Il "little Italy" tra parentesi potrebbe servire, comunque.
Peer comment(s):
agree Umberto Cassano : Bruna mi hai convinto, sai ? Se fossi in Jules utilizzerei questa soluzione. Il tuo talento è indiscutibile, non fare la modesta. Un brava da parte mia !/Ti prego, basta con quelle schifezzine culinarie se no veramente esplodo come Mr Creosote, sei brava!
8 mins
Mi sa che hai mangiato troppo budino di riso al cioccolato :-) (grazie, sei troppo gentile e generoso oggi!)
neutral Gad Kohenov : 'little Italy" exists somewhere else (New York). Better not use it here.
11 hrs
ciao desert! Forse hai ragione. Buona giornata
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, Texjax. I've finally decided to leave "Italietta" untranslated and put an explanation in brackets - not "Little Italy" (I agree with Desertfox on that), but probably something along the lines of Joseph's "small-time"."
4 mins

pre-unit little Italy

literally and free
Peer comment(s):
neutral Galya Ivanova (X) : I don't know how to add comments to the asker, might be a full member feature :( I found this forum where the term Italietta is discussed, might be of use :) http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=539849
46 mins
see my note on top, please.
Something went wrong...
+1
30 mins

politically divided pre-unitary Italy

Though the text seems to imply something different...

Usually the term "Italietta" refers to a "petit-bourgeois Italy" still troubled by "campanilismo" and "provincialismo", i.e. local interests, city rilvalries...etc..

My confidence is low since the text is ambiguous about "preunitaria"

HTH
Peer comment(s):
agree P.L.F. Persio : a me sembra che volessero dire "postunitaria", semmai; petit-bourgeois o magari philistine potrebbero "do the trick" per Italietta.
1 hr
infatti ! E' molto strano, nella nota a Jules ho insinuato questo dubbio e tu e Paola confermate quello che ho scritto in nota e nella motivazione alla mia risposta. Philistine va benissimo, il senso è quello ! Grazie e ciao :-)
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+2
1 hr

Pre-unity embryo Italian state

Pre-unity is as good as pre-unitary or preunitary. All figure in Google in articles about Italy.
Or simply pre-unity Italy.
Italietta can be a diminutive in the geographical sense.
Peer comment(s):
agree Russell Jones : Pre-unification (compare web hits 0:213). Otherwise I agree with you for a change!
39 mins
True, more hits for pre-unification. I can live with that. Thanks for your support.
agree Joseph Tein : Shalom Shual ha-migdal! I agree with 'pre-unity' // Slichah - I meant 'midbar'. Yossi.
53 mins
Thanks hombre. Google is with Russel, but I am glad I had the idea about embyro and found now also: Lombardy was annexed to the embryonic Italian state in 1859. Shual ha-Migdal (tower?). You meant Shual ha-midbar.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

small-time pre-unification Italy

I'm very certain that 'pre-unification' is the appropriate English term for 'preunitaria'. 'Pre-unit' and 'pre-unitary' are not correct adjectives, or at least not very exact, to describe a country before unification. (I think 'pre-unity' IS equally correct, although I prefer 'unification' because it's more active.)

Since 'Italietta' seems to have a sarcastic or pejorative tone , I would suggest 'small-time', which I've seen in several Google pages.

Example sentence:

"Mutual aid societies flourished in pre-unification Italy (circa 1850),-- ..."

"Can anyone tell me about military conscription in pre-Unification Italy?

Peer comment(s):
agree Umberto Cassano : small-time is fine in my view, but "embryo" is questionable
27 mins
Something went wrong...
11 hrs

puny, ineffectual

...in pre-unification Italy, puny and ineffectual, which still...

The discussion on Italietta in wordreference, which gets closer to the mark than this one, might be of interest.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=539849&page=...
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20 hrs

pseudo-Italian state prior to the its union

Another option
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