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Free Windows 10 update
Thread poster: William Pairman

William Pairman  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:52
Member (2005)
Spanish to English
Jun 2, 2015

Like other Windows 7 and 8 users I saw a little Windows icon on the tool bar yesterday, offering a free upgrade to W10 when this is available in the summer.

I asked a few people who said variously "Sure, go for it", "Wait for W10 SP1" "Create a partition on your hard drive" and "Swerve at all costs"

What do others feel? I'm not a gamer but I do watch videos from time to time. I've been fine with W7 up till now...


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Michael J.H. Davies  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 23:52
Member (2009)
English to Danish
+ ...
Windows 10 Jun 2, 2015

I have just clicked on the 'windows 10' icon. There is no risk as far as I can see since the upgrade will not be done automatically. We will be notified when Windows 10 is available and can then choose for ourselves whether or not to follow through.

Apart from being a translator, I am also an ICT consultant and, so far, all I have read about Windows 10 (from other sources than Microsoft), we can look forward to Win10. So far, it seems, that MS get it right every other time - XP was great, Vista was a dismal failure, Win 7 is great (I use it at the moment), Win 8 was a pain (a bit better with 8.1), so, if this keeps up, Win10 should be good. I'll keep monitoring the professional media on Win 10 and, if I am not still convinced when it becomes available, I'll stick with Win 7.


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Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:52
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Depends Jun 2, 2015

I'm one of those who hate Windows 8 with a passion (some like it, but there's no use taking up that debate again), so I look forward to a usable version of Windows. I find Windows 8 terribly counter-intuitive, and the charms opening every time I need to move the cursor to the left is just atrociously annoying.

Fortunately, we only got Windows 8 on my daughter's PC (she dislikes it too), so we'll use that as guinea pig for Windows 10, as it can hardly get any worse.

I've postponed purchase of a work computer because of Windows 8, so I really hope Windows 10 is as good as promised.

Then we'll decide if we're going to upgrade the Windows 7 computers to Windows 10.

Windows 7 has some annoying problems, particularly with Windows Explorer that doesn't always update folder views so I still see files that have been deleted, and new files are not shown unless I refresh the view. It also has problems with Windows Explorer telling me I can't move/delete/rename a file or folder because another program is using it, but when I start Unlocker, it tells me that it's Explorer itself that has from 2 to 20 locks on it for no apparent reason, and when I 'kill' these locks, everything is fine. And finally, Windows Explorer sometimes tells me I'm not sufficiently authorised to delete my own files and folders. The question is, if Microsoft could not be bothered to fix this on Windows 7, will they have fixed it on Windows 10?


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Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro
Germany
Local time: 23:52
Member (2011)
English to German
+ ...
I hate Windows 8 as well Jun 2, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:

Fortunately, we only got Windows 8 on my daughter's PC (she dislikes it too), so we'll use that as guinea pig for Windows 10, as it can hardly get any worse.



My son spent his own pocket money to have his new laptop (which came with Windows 8) downgraded to Windows 7. When I set up his computer for him and later, when I solved some issues he had as a newbie computer user, there were plenty of occasions when I wanted to throw the d****d thing out of the Windows. If anything, it can serve as a perfect example for counter-intuitivity.

I hope my son is willing to play the guinea pig for me, when I want to have a look at Windows 10.

What is most important: What compatibility issues can we expect? I wonder if all my software will be working on Windows 10.


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Rolf Keller
Germany
Local time: 23:52
English to German
No out-of-the-box Windows has ever has been usable, but ... Jun 2, 2015

Anna Sarah Krämer Fazendeiro wrote:

My son spent his own pocket money to have his new laptop (which came with Windows 8) downgraded to Windows 7.


The Web offers lots of guides & tricks for converting Win 8 into a user friendly system. It's only the visible user interface that confuses many users, the system proper works perfectly. http://blog.laptopmag.com/make-windows-8-like-windows-7

For professional usage Windows (as well as MS Office) must be tweaked and set up personally. The MS standard installation is rather ****. That holds for any version from Win 98 on. We have to accept that fact because there is no real alternative.


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Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:52
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Conversion Jun 2, 2015

Rolf Keller wrote:

The Web offers lots of guides & tricks for converting Win 8 into a user friendly system. It's only the visible user interface that confuses many users, the system proper works perfectly. http://blog.laptopmag.com/make-windows-8-like-windows-7



Until now, nobody has been able to tell me how to deactivate the charms that open when you move the cursor left.

Sure, you can buy software that installs a start button, just as you can ask a workshop to move a new car's steering wheel back in place from the from the roof where the manufacturer thought it was great to place it, deactivate the electronics that open all the windows every time you change the radio station, etc. I just don't expect having to rebuild things right after I buy them just to make them usable.


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Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 05:52
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Could hardly be worse than 8 Jun 2, 2015

I've done everything to kill with fire what made Windows 8 on my laptop Windows 8, but it doesn't change the fact that almost every operation takes an extra click or has a few hurdles to jump over. I don't trust MS' market research one bit, but from the previews it doesn't seem like 10 is worse than 8. Not that that's much of a bar to clear.

[Edited at 2015-06-02 12:59 GMT]


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Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:52
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Wait then move Jun 2, 2015

William Pairman wrote:
What do others feel? I'm not a gamer but I do watch videos from time to time. I've been fine with W7 up till now...

If you don't have a pressing need, don't upgrade until you, well, feel a pressing need.

I've been running the Windows 10 Technical Preview for a few weeks now (currently build 10130). The background was that I was building a new PC and didn't want to buy Windows 8.1 or Windows 7 for it given that W10 is just around the corner.

I have a recurring problem with the on-board NIC (related to the specific Intel chip used) but otherwise it seems to work well.

Just did a medium-sized translation job using SDL Studio 2014, no problems there. Office 2013 and all my other software seems to work fine.

Things I like about Windows 10:
Pros - Unbelievably quick boot/reboot time, ability to scale individual screen elements, overall snappiness.
Cons - Nothing major at this point.

Regards
Dan


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:52
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Buy software that installs a start button Jun 2, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:
Sure, you can buy software that installs a start button...


You can buy it, or you can get it for free:
http://www.classicshell.net/


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Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:52
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
I refuse Jun 2, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
You can buy it, or you can get it for free:
http://www.classicshell.net/


My point is that I do not want to have to install additional software just to make Windows' basic and essential functions work, whether it is free or not, so I stay on Windows 7 until a new version that works without additional gadgets is released. Interfering with core system functions always carries the risk of introducing other problems.

That start button application still doesn't do away with the charms, I guess. That alone makes the system unworkable.

The one PC with Windows 8, my daughter's, keeps dropping the wifi connection, refusing to reconnect without rebooting. One error message I saw said it had the same IP address as another device on my router. I don't know which component causes it, but only the PC with Windows 8 has that problem. I'm in no hurry to risk propagating that problem to the other computers.

But there's no purpose trying to repair Windows 8 now that Windows 10 is around the corner.

[Edited at 2015-06-02 19:14 GMT]


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Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:52
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
My advice Jun 2, 2015

Never install a brand new system until SP1 is out and all mayor bugs are killed. With Windows that can be very soon after release.

By the way, Windows 8 = Windows 7, only with more 'bells'.

[Edited at 2015-06-02 20:34 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:52
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Then refuse to upgrade Jun 3, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
You can buy it, or you can get it for free:
http://www.classicshell.net/

I refuse. My point is that I do not want to have to install additional software just to make Windows' basic and essential functions work, whether it is free or not...


I understand, but I think newer versions of programs generally work different from older versions, and anything that changes may be something that someone considers a critical feature, so to make that feature work again, you'd have to tweak things or resort to installing additional software. I understand your frustration -- I would love to have all the features of Windows XP that they removed from it (for no reason that I can imagine), but it aint gonna happen.


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Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 23:52
Member (2014)
French to Danish
+ ...
Windows 10 is a special case Jun 3, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
Then refuse to upgrade


As I wrote earlier, I did not upgrade to Windows 8. I didn't need you to tell me that That was an easy decision, once I'd experienced the horrors once.

Samuel Murray wrote:
I understand, but I think newer versions of programs generally work different from older versions, and anything that changes may be something that someone considers a critical feature, so to make that feature work again, you'd have to tweak things or resort to installing additional software. I understand your frustration -- I would love to have all the features of Windows XP that they removed from it (for no reason that I can imagine), but it aint gonna happen.


Windows 8 is a special case where you have millions of dissatisfied Windows users among those who use Windows 8, and many more who have refused to upgrade because it's so poorly designed. You can't just consider this a general 'new versions are always changed' question. Microsoft has carefully hidden away many of the functions you need and made sure you can't work normally without their idiotic charms interrupting every few seconds because even if you use keyboard and mouse, it's designed for touch screens. "Just type its name on the [not Metro] screen", they say. Yes, just like DOS, which is the functionality level Windows 8 has regressed to - or close. And how do you find it if it's in another language than English and you're not sure how they've translated it? It doesn't even match the original English function names on another Windows-language version.

Now Windows 10 is coming out, what's the point of discussing how to tweak Windows 8 anyway? It's dead in the water already.


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Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:52
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
It wasn't that sort of change Jun 3, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
I understand, but I think newer versions of programs generally work different from older versions...

Usually I'd agree with you Samuel, but in the case of Windows 8 a certain ideological view - "from now on all Windows users will have a unified interface suitable for a tablet!" - was imposed from above and was allowed to dominate development goals.

The result was that the people who were not running Windows 8 on a tablet - i.e. the vast majority - experienced dramatic, unnecessary and unwanted changes to their daily interface. The correct response is not to shrug and say "hey, things change" but to say "this was a deliberate and very stupid decision; let's not buy Windows 8".

By contrast Windows 7 (and even Vista before that) offered an evolutionary upgrade to the previous interface. It's no coincidence that the Windows 10 interface is instantly familiar to users of Windows 7.

On the other hand, a member of my family has Windows 8 on their laptop and it is execrable. I am perpetually hunting around to find things or being surprised by odd quirks in the interface. With Windows 10 I'm just using it. There are no surprises. It does what I expect it to do. So Microsoft learned something from that experience.

The underlying intention, which is to unify apps across devices, is potentially revolutionary. It opens the door to a Windows 10 smartphone becoming the ultimate portable PC. Modern applications that are written to be aware of Windows 10 will literally install and run on your smartphone. The same apps, not cut-down versions. The exact same software.

Think about what that means. Imagine that you're driving to your house in the country or to your family's place on Thursday for a long weekend. Unfortunately you have to do some work on Friday.

Here's how it plays out. Arrive. Take your phone out of your pocket. Plug it into a 24" monitor using HDMI. Connect a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Bang. The phone automatically reconfigures the display for a large monitor and you have an instant Windows 10 PC with all your favourite software on it. Not Android or iOs equivalents, but the applications you use every day, including CAT tools. Boot SDL or Deja Vu or whatever and start work. When you're finished, disconnect and put the phone back in your pocket. Go enjoy your weekend. No laptop bag, no clunky power supply just a slimline phone in your jeans pocket that you'd be carrying with you anyway.

That's a beguiling vision for me. I'll always have a desktop but I may no longer need a laptop. Of course, it also makes we wonder whether my next phone will be a Windows 10 smartphone even though I have been a (hitherto) contented user of Android for the past 5 years.

Note that this is not Microsoft's "vision" or a plan for some future point e.g. 2017 or 2020: it has already happened. Office applications will now run on your Windows smartphone.

Regards
Dan


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 23:52
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
On Windows XP versus 7 versus 8 Jun 3, 2015

Thomas T. Frost wrote:
As I wrote earlier, I did not upgrade to Windows 8. ... That was an easy decision, once I'd experienced the horrors once.


After I got over the initial shock of Windows 8's new interface, and after experiencing Windows 8's performance increases, I am now a believer in Windows 8. Install Classic Shell into Windows 8, and it's essentially the same as Windows 7, but faster.

Windows 8 is a special case where you have millions of dissatisfied Windows users among those who use Windows 8, and many more who have refused to upgrade because it's so poorly designed. ... Microsoft has carefully hidden away many of the functions you need...


I must mention that I never used Windows Vista -- I upgraded from Windows XP to Windows 7 and then (on some of my computers) to Windows 8. The move to Windows 7 was particularly painful for me, for even though Windows 7 "looks" like Windows XP, many of the functionalities that I got used to in Windows XP were simply absent in Windows 7. For Windows 7 I had to try out many, many different utilities to regain some of the lost functionality (and for some I could not find any). By contrast, the move from Windows 7 to Windows 8 was pain-free (as I said: once you install Classic Shell, it's essentially Windows 7 again).

...without their idiotic charms interrupting every few seconds...


Do you mean the slide-in menu that pops up when you move your mouse to the top-left of the screen? It doesn't bother me... I rarely see it.


[Edited at 2015-06-03 10:56 GMT]


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