Jul 29, 2006 17:36
18 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Italian term
voce timbrata
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Music
Music/opera
Da un articolo sulle qualità vocali di diversi cantanti d'opera: "La voce di ** ha un volume ridotto ma e' timbratissima e sempre emessa "in maschera"... La voce di ** puo' apparire TROPPO timbrata,
risultando innaturale, ma il giudizio e' soggettivo e relativo al repertorio." Capisco il significato di "voce timbrata" ma non riesco a trovare un termine corrispondente in inglese. Grazie in anticipo dell'aiuto.
risultando innaturale, ma il giudizio e' soggettivo e relativo al repertorio." Capisco il significato di "voce timbrata" ma non riesco a trovare un termine corrispondente in inglese. Grazie in anticipo dell'aiuto.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+3
14 hrs
Kristel Kiesel
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Learning and growing with my clients
Native in: English
Works in: Italian to English, Latin to English, English to Latin
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
voice with timbre, timbred voice
I studied voice for years and would be happy to ask one of my professors for a more nuanced answer, but here's what I think:
voce timbrata - voice with timbre; timb(e)red voice
timbratissima - highly timbred
troppo timbrata - has too much timbre
Wikipedia had the best definition I've seen for timbre, but from an instrumentalist's perspective. From a vocalist's perspective, based on Wikipedia's definition, I would say that timbre is that particular quality of a voice which distinguishes it from all other voices. So a good timbre is highly individualistic by nature.
For timbratissima, I think the author has left the door wide open for you to make a contrast with the preceding phrase: "volume ridotto"--the small volume of the voice (referring to the amount of sound), compared to the great volume of its timbre (referring to the amount of color or high degree of individualism of the voice). From various hits on Google, I've seen timbre used as a countable noun or an uncountable noun, and paired with every adjective imaginable: honey-timbred, multi-timbred, tart-timbred, large-timbred, etc. to describe the size, the taste, the color, the smell, of the timbre. Pick a superlative that contrasts well with the phrase "volume ridotto", and I think you'll be fine. I like "highly timbred".
As for the spelling, there a lot of hits on Google both for "timbred" and "timbered", but a OneLook dictionary search reveals no listing for either word as a musical term--"timbered" has to do with trees and "timbred" simply isn't listed. I did a Google search for both "timbered soprano" and "timbred soprano" and got exactly 728 hits for each! So musicians are using these words, even if dictionaries aren't, and both spellings seem to be equally popular. "Timbred" looks more European to me, and seems more correct given that the word is borrowed from French, but it's your choice, of course.
Hope all of that helps!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2006-07-30 09:24:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry, rereading your earlier notes, I don't think I helped resolve your problem, so let me try one more time. I think "timbred voice" is just fine. By saying "timbred voice", the author seems to mean "well-timbred voice", which he goes on to explain, if that quote you posted was part of your translation, Fiorsam. Maybe the author is using this phrase in a totally new way. I bet it's just as unusual in Italian.
The point seems to be that not just any voice can be called "timbred". A timbred voice is highly trained and developed (with regards to timbre, at least). We are perhaps used to thinking that every voice has some sort of timbre. I think this author is implying that you don't have timbre at all if you don't bother to develop it--hence, the "timbred voice" vs. the "untimbred voice". Hope that helps somehow!
I really think "timbred voice" is just fine, but how about "well-timbred voice" if you don't think "timbred" is adequate by itself. It is a tough call.
voce timbrata - voice with timbre; timb(e)red voice
timbratissima - highly timbred
troppo timbrata - has too much timbre
Wikipedia had the best definition I've seen for timbre, but from an instrumentalist's perspective. From a vocalist's perspective, based on Wikipedia's definition, I would say that timbre is that particular quality of a voice which distinguishes it from all other voices. So a good timbre is highly individualistic by nature.
For timbratissima, I think the author has left the door wide open for you to make a contrast with the preceding phrase: "volume ridotto"--the small volume of the voice (referring to the amount of sound), compared to the great volume of its timbre (referring to the amount of color or high degree of individualism of the voice). From various hits on Google, I've seen timbre used as a countable noun or an uncountable noun, and paired with every adjective imaginable: honey-timbred, multi-timbred, tart-timbred, large-timbred, etc. to describe the size, the taste, the color, the smell, of the timbre. Pick a superlative that contrasts well with the phrase "volume ridotto", and I think you'll be fine. I like "highly timbred".
As for the spelling, there a lot of hits on Google both for "timbred" and "timbered", but a OneLook dictionary search reveals no listing for either word as a musical term--"timbered" has to do with trees and "timbred" simply isn't listed. I did a Google search for both "timbered soprano" and "timbred soprano" and got exactly 728 hits for each! So musicians are using these words, even if dictionaries aren't, and both spellings seem to be equally popular. "Timbred" looks more European to me, and seems more correct given that the word is borrowed from French, but it's your choice, of course.
Hope all of that helps!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2006-07-30 09:24:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry, rereading your earlier notes, I don't think I helped resolve your problem, so let me try one more time. I think "timbred voice" is just fine. By saying "timbred voice", the author seems to mean "well-timbred voice", which he goes on to explain, if that quote you posted was part of your translation, Fiorsam. Maybe the author is using this phrase in a totally new way. I bet it's just as unusual in Italian.
The point seems to be that not just any voice can be called "timbred". A timbred voice is highly trained and developed (with regards to timbre, at least). We are perhaps used to thinking that every voice has some sort of timbre. I think this author is implying that you don't have timbre at all if you don't bother to develop it--hence, the "timbred voice" vs. the "untimbred voice". Hope that helps somehow!
I really think "timbred voice" is just fine, but how about "well-timbred voice" if you don't think "timbred" is adequate by itself. It is a tough call.
Example sentence:
The voice of ** has a low volume but is highly/extremely timbred.
The voice of ** has a low volume but a great deal of timbre.
Reference:
Note from asker:
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Rosanna Palermo
4 hrs
|
|
Thank you.
|
|
| agree |
Liliana Roman-Hamilton
8 hrs
|
|
Thank you.
|
|
| agree |
savaria (X)
9 hrs
|
|
Thank you. I learned a lot from trying to answer this question!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I want to thank each and every one of you for exceptional contributions to my question. Each answer and suggestion had merit, and the selection was not easy. I have chosen Kristel's answer because it was the most helpful in giving me an insight into the multi-dimensional meaning of the word. Grazie di cuore!"
-1
18 mins
a toned voice
I am quite highly convinced that this is the word you are lokoking for.
See: Dizionario Inglese - Italiano European Books Milano
See: Dizionario Inglese - Italiano European Books Milano
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Caterina Passari
: a toned voice
7 mins
|
|
grazie per l'agree
|
|
| disagree |
Laurel Porter (X)
: Same problem here as with "timbered/timbred" - would not normally be used on its own without a modifier such as "dark-, sweet-," etc.
4 hrs
|
|
grazie per l'opinione cosí precisa
|
|
| disagree |
Kristel Kiesel
: "Toned voice" sounds to me like a voice that is in good shape, like "toned muscles". I have heard the word "tone" used in much the same way as "timbre", but "tone" is a broad term. "Timbre" refers to a specific quality of the sound.
13 hrs
|
|
thank you
|
18 mins
timbered voice
"Maria Russo has a large, bright timbered voice as Irene, which one is interested
to hear again and again". Der Neue Merker,Wien Als Odabella in Attila ...
http://www.operastars.com/MariaRusso/acclaim.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2006-07-29 17:55:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A warm dark - timbered voice in the low register, an uncommonly pleasing bright,
pure sound in the high one, and an immensely enjoyable intense expression ...
http://www.artistsinternational.com/bracha.htm -
to hear again and again". Der Neue Merker,Wien Als Odabella in Attila ...
http://www.operastars.com/MariaRusso/acclaim.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2006-07-29 17:55:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A warm dark - timbered voice in the low register, an uncommonly pleasing bright,
pure sound in the high one, and an immensely enjoyable intense expression ...
http://www.artistsinternational.com/bracha.htm -
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Kari Foster
: (or "timbred") I agree with Fiorsam however that there is normally a qualifying adjective; often "rich", "warm" or "dark".
2 hrs
|
|
thanks. Also agree but asker only asked for the "root part" which I provided
|
|
| disagree |
Laurel Porter (X)
: Sorry, I agree with the asker that the word sounds unnatural on its own. "Timbratissima" could not reasonably be translated as "extremely timbered", for example.
4 hrs
|
2 hrs
Kari Foster
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
Technical knowledge, attention to detail
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, German to English, and 1 more.
nuanced voice
I am not too convinced about this, but wondered if "timbrata" on its own could be taken to mean "nuanced".
4 hrs
cultured voice
Just one option - I am an opera singer myself, and have heard this particular adjective used both pejoratively and positively. A good example of both follows:
"He has a rich, cultured voice which expresses passion without ever lapsing into roughness. Mr. Pons's smoothness and good taste perhaps undercut the Count di Luna's inherent brutishness, but Act II's ''Il balen del suo sorriso'' seemed a perfect vehicle for his particular set of talents." (New York Times, review by Bernard Holland)
"He has a rich, cultured voice which expresses passion without ever lapsing into roughness. Mr. Pons's smoothness and good taste perhaps undercut the Count di Luna's inherent brutishness, but Act II's ''Il balen del suo sorriso'' seemed a perfect vehicle for his particular set of talents." (New York Times, review by Bernard Holland)
5 hrs
too individual a timbre/the timbre can grate
I appreciate that "voce timbrata" is a bit strange.
It's ambiguous, too - perhaps the singer in question has an impressive range of timbres that she/he switches between(?) -> "timbre is overdone".
Maybe the voice is characterised too much by its timbre - hence "a timbre that is too individual", overly individual.
"Her voice is characterised too much by its timbre" - I think it needs stretching out, really.
Perhaps the timbre is too steely or too woolly and the singer is using too much head voice or too much chest.
"too much focus on timbre"
I guess you could even go so far as to say "the timbre grates".
Just a few ideas, anyway. Tough one!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2006-07-29 23:38:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
overly developed timbre?
It's ambiguous, too - perhaps the singer in question has an impressive range of timbres that she/he switches between(?) -> "timbre is overdone".
Maybe the voice is characterised too much by its timbre - hence "a timbre that is too individual", overly individual.
"Her voice is characterised too much by its timbre" - I think it needs stretching out, really.
Perhaps the timbre is too steely or too woolly and the singer is using too much head voice or too much chest.
"too much focus on timbre"
I guess you could even go so far as to say "the timbre grates".
Just a few ideas, anyway. Tough one!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2006-07-29 23:38:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
overly developed timbre?
Example sentence:
...with a highly individual timbre which she uses to great vocal and dramatic effect
Reference:
5 hrs
has to do with the colour of the voice or a voice with a rich/full tone
to me a voce timbrata is the opposite of a voce bianca.
this is just the idea-timbratissima would be a voice with a very rich/full tone
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2006-07-30 00:00:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
too much timbre can mean there is not enough head tone. so the voice sounds very rich but does not have the quality necessary that makes a voice carry well or ring out. they explain it's placed well because sometimes people fabricate a tone by singing too much in the mouth and the voice is not really placed 'in the mask' when they sing.
this is just the idea-timbratissima would be a voice with a very rich/full tone
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2006-07-30 00:00:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
too much timbre can mean there is not enough head tone. so the voice sounds very rich but does not have the quality necessary that makes a voice carry well or ring out. they explain it's placed well because sometimes people fabricate a tone by singing too much in the mouth and the voice is not really placed 'in the mask' when they sing.
Discussion