öffentliches Mädchen

English translation: woman of the street

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:öffentliches Mädchen
English translation:woman of the street
Entered by: Rachel Ward

14:55 Dec 14, 2011
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / 19th century Berlin
German term or phrase: öffentliches Mädchen
I get the general idea here, but am struggling to find an English euphemism that catches the same tone.

Any thoughts?

It relates to Fontane's "Von Zwanzig bis Dreißig":
Dazu Alma, »eine kleine, sehr wohlgenährte Person mit roten Backen und großen schwarzen Augen, die mit seltner Stupidität in die Welt blickten. Ihre Hauptschönheit und zugleich auch das Zeichen ihres Berufes war eine mit minutiöser Sorgfalt gepflegte Sechse, die sie glatt angeklebt zwischen Ohr und Schläfe trug.« Vater Fontäne, als er seinen Sohn besuchte, erkannte sachverständig sofort Alma als **öffentliches Mädchen**. Solche täuschten gern mit dem Familienstand »Witwe« die Sittenpolizei.
Rachel Ward
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:58
woman of the street
Explanation:
I believe this would be the right register and tone. Can't help thinking of the phrase: 'she was no better than she ought to be.' (which would not be.) I'm not sure there is too much approbation in the German term, almost just a question of her status. There was great anxiety in many European countries at the time about women appearing in the public sphere and not be easily distinguishable from 'honest women.' I presume such tiny markers of difference like the kiss curl were heavily laden for viewers/men on the street and may have saved a few blushes.


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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2011-12-15 19:17:19 GMT) Post-grading
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Thanks, Rachel, glad to help.
Selected response from:

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:58
Grading comment
Thanks Helen - spot on!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3woman of the street
Helen Shiner
4 +1lady of pleasure; fancy woman
Sven Petersson
3 +1working girl
Barbara Wiebking
3hireling
Ramey Rieger (X)
2 +1public body
Wendy Streitparth
2 +1girl/woman of ill repute
Cilian O'Tuama
3courtesan
Birgit Gläser
Summary of reference entries provided
Possibly interesting quote
Alison MacG

Discussion entries: 9





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
hireling


Explanation:
nice and euphemistic, isn't it?

lady of the night


Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Local time: 20:58
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 41

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  hazmatgerman (X): I quite like the lady, but why at night only?
1 hr
  -> idiomatic, once again

neutral  Birgit Gläser: a hireling is someone hired to do menial work - usually not of a sexual nature
5 hrs
  -> Yes, it is a stretch, isn't it?
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22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
public body


Explanation:
sorry - couldn't resist

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2011-12-14 15:20:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Maybe: nice little tart?

Wendy Streitparth
Germany
Local time: 20:58
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 44

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  hazmatgerman (X): nice little tart - this sounds mighty strong, does it not? Regards.//Tasty – I like that one. Regards.
6 hrs
  -> Quite tasty, I thought. Ah well, thanks anyway.

agree  Cilian O'Tuama: made me snigger, but not to be taken seriously, of course
7 hrs
  -> No, especially not considering the period. But thanks.
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
working girl


Explanation:
How about this?


    Reference: http://thesaurus.com/browse/whore
Barbara Wiebking
Germany
Local time: 20:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 7

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Horst Huber (X): For Fontane's somewhat gentle sarcasm, I would choose this, or "woman of the profession".
3 hrs
  -> Thanks.

agree  Ramey Rieger (X): very well done!
4 hrs
  -> Thanks!

neutral  Birgit Gläser: I think this was coined much later - I can not say that I've come across it in historical novels
4 hrs
  -> You may be right.

disagree  hazmatgerman (X): With the reason surmised by Ms. Gläser above.
6 hrs

neutral  Helen Shiner: This is too modern a term. I would think it dates from the 1980s or later.
19 hrs
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38 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
girl/woman of ill repute


Explanation:
perhaps, in line with:
ein öffentliches Haus (euph) a house of ill repute (euph);


Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Local time: 20:58
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ingeborg Gowans (X)
16 mins

disagree  Ramey Rieger (X): much too blatant for such a nice euphemism// Which is exactly why the euphemism is so vital.
4 hrs
  -> No reason for nice euph. considering "das Zeichen ihres Berufes" and "Sittenpolizei"? // So, so.

agree  hazmatgerman (X): I tend to see this a suitable but am not sure about its currency at the time.//tx; house of the rising sun remembrance then. Best.
6 hrs
  -> I'd have thought it to be a common term in 19th Century, from the little I've read. And the meaning has probably changed over the years too. But CL still low.
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
courtesan


Explanation:
often used in historical romances... also I'd still prefer the good old "whore" over the other suggestions

Birgit Gläser
Germany
Local time: 20:58
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  hazmatgerman (X): would that not have been a girl kept by a single patron, rather than one of loose morals?
1 hr
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
lady of pleasure; fancy woman


Explanation:
:o)

Sven Petersson
Sweden
Local time: 20:58
Native speaker of: Native in SwedishSwedish, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Johanna Timm, PhD: "fancy woman" would be a historically appropriate (Victorian) term; http://www.census1891.com/occupations-f.htm http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fancy woman http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~usgwkidz/oldjobs.htm
1 hr
  -> Thank you very much!

neutral  Helen Shiner: 'Fancy woman' generally refers to a 'bit on the side', a mistress, not a prostitute.
4 hrs
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
woman of the street


Explanation:
I believe this would be the right register and tone. Can't help thinking of the phrase: 'she was no better than she ought to be.' (which would not be.) I'm not sure there is too much approbation in the German term, almost just a question of her status. There was great anxiety in many European countries at the time about women appearing in the public sphere and not be easily distinguishable from 'honest women.' I presume such tiny markers of difference like the kiss curl were heavily laden for viewers/men on the street and may have saved a few blushes.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2011-12-15 19:17:19 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Rachel, glad to help.

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:58
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 105
Grading comment
Thanks Helen - spot on!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alison MacG: I think this is the most appropriate of all the suggestions so far. There is even an argument for simply "common prostitute", with "öffentlich" indicating general availability
10 hrs
  -> Thanks, Alison, yes, it just depends on the tone of the text and the degree of euphemism, however slight.

agree  hazmatgerman (X): Having complete trust in your period knowledge I agree right away; only saw this now.
11 hrs
  -> Thanks, hazmatgerman. I guess the GER emphasises the distinction between domestic/public spheres.

agree  seehand
12 hrs
  -> Thank you, seehand
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Reference comments


19 hrs
Reference: Possibly interesting quote

Reference information:
Und wenn Sie sich ansehen, dass eine Frau, die ohne männliche Begleitung im 19. Jahrhundert im öffentlichen Raum der Stadt sich bewegte, als fille publique galt, das heißt als öffentliches Mädchen, als Prostituierte, dann werden Sie wahrscheinlich sehr misstrauisch werden gegenüber der These, dass heutige öffentliche Räume weniger zugänglich wären als im 19. Jahrhundert oder gar in der griechischen Polis.
http://www.eventkultur-lab.de/img/static/uUpload/festival_si...

Alison MacG
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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