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DOTES
la procédure d’acceptation
This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Oct 22, 2015 14:23
8 yrs ago
25 viewers *
French term

décompte

French to English Bus/Financial Law: Contract(s)
Taken from a contract for the supply of goods:

En cas de non-conformité, le Fournisseur se verra pénaliser d’une somme forfaitaire de cinq cents (500) euros par PV de non-conformité qui lui sera envoyé ainsi qu’à chaque récurrence de PV indicé par une lettre. Cette somme équivaut aux couts de réalisation et d’envoi du dossier. Le décompte prendra effet à date de signature du contrat. Le bilan sera effectué à chaque fin de période. Cette pénalité est indépendante de tout dédommagement légal que l’Acheteur sera en droit de réclamer.

It is unclear to me what is meant by "décompte" - does it simply mean that the penalty procedure will apply as of the date of the contract?

Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations (English)
4 itemized account
4 -2 these deductions will be applied from the date of signing the contract
3 -1 detailed account, working out of xyz, breakdown of xyz
References
il s'agit du décompte de PV

Discussion

Wendy Cummings (asker) Oct 29, 2015:
virtual points go to mchd The reference post by mchd is what I believe to be correct. And although this may be a controversial decision, i chose to translate the sentence simply as "these penalties will apply starting from the date of the contract" as I feel that conveys all the necessary meaning. Thank you to everyone who contributed.
Wendy Cummings (asker) Oct 23, 2015:
Notes Daryo: as far as I can tell, this is an initial contract with a new supplier, and a fairly specific one (i.e. not a framework agreement).
Germaine: I agree with your analysis i.e. the penalty system (counting of PVs) will start upon signature of the contract.
Germaine Oct 22, 2015:
Je suis d'accord avec mchd. Du point de vue de la syntaxe, "décompte" ne peut renvoyer qu'à "PV de non-conformité" (let's say "PV1") et à "récurrence de PV indicé" (let's say "PV1a"). Donc: décompte= counting = PV1 + PV1a => = 2 x 500 euros. Par ailleurs, comme la pénalité vise spécifiquement les frais "de réalisation et d'envoi du dossier", il ne peut s'agir des non-conformités en soi.
Daryo Oct 22, 2015:
do you have elsewhere any indication if this a contract with a new supplier, or an amendment to an existing contract?

For now, it looks like it's an amendment to an already existing contract where these "penalties for delivering non-conforming goods" are not included, so

Le décompte prendra effet à date de signature du contrat

would mean that these deductions (from invoiced amounts) would start to be applied once the amended contract is signed. (i.e. on goods delivered under the modified contract)

Proposed translations

2 hrs

itemized account

the account featuring all the 'PVs' item per item
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : that's not the point of "décompte" in this sentence, so it fits in this sentence like a square peg in a round hole//the payment for delivered goods can only be reduced by a total amount of penalties, say 1500 (3x500), not by "3"
3 hrs
Did you read the comments by MCHD?
agree Adrian MM. (X) : just: account in FRE/BrE parallel standard civil engineering contract conds, as Daryo is obviously unfamiliar with http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/other/838343-déc...
3 hrs
disagree mchd : cela ne correspond toujours pas et la référence d'Adrian ne correspond pas au contexte non plus
3 hrs
Donnez donc votre traduction et l'on verra !
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : This is an accurate answer to the question for the term posted. I have submitted another answer, not to "compete" with yours, but to explain another reading and further points.
1 day 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
-2
18 hrs
French term (edited): Le décompte prendra effet à date de signature du contrat

these deductions will be applied from the date of signing the contract

"prendra effet à date de" = the key point of this sentence is in determining the point in time when these deductions will start to be applied; HOW they are calculated is defined elsewhere


décompte , nom masculin

Sens 1 Décomposition d'une somme en ses divers éléments consitutifs.
Synonyme : déduction
Traduction anglais : breakdown

Sens 2 Somme d'argent retirée d'un compte.
Synonyme : retranchement
Traduction anglais : deduction

http://www.linternaute.com/dictionnaire/fr/definition/decomp...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Francois Boye : Asker said yesterday that 'deduction' was not the right translation!
4 hrs
where is that bit??? all I can see is the Asker saying that it's a new contract
disagree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Sorry to disagree Daryo, but the internaute source is bizarre here. The appropriate meaning in context is as in "sens 1" which is correctly provided from a semantic point of view in EN as "breakdown" yet incorrectly matched in FR as "déduction".
10 hrs
of the two possible meanings what makes commercial/real life sense in that specific clause is talking about when these "penalties" (monies taken away form payments) will start to apply NOT about their breakdown/itemization
Something went wrong...
-1
1 day 4 hrs

detailed account, working out of xyz, breakdown of xyz

décompte FR • detailed account EN
comptabilité
Décomposition d'une somme en ses éléments de détail.
Logo identifiant une fiche rédigée par l’Office québécois de la langue française Office québécois de la langue française, 2001

décompte FR • working out of charges EN
gestion
Le Docte, Edgard, 1978

The suggested translations fit for meaning in context. However, when it comes to translating the whole sentence, in essence, I agree with your reading, Wendy. It is about determining the point in time from which the PV will be calculated. And that is where confusion arises, as it makes it seem as though one is misreading "décompte" as a (termporal) countdown, when in fact that is in the second part of the sentence. Here are some suggested renderings for

"Le décompte prendra effet à date de signature du contrat"(I've deliberately left "PV" as I don't know what term you are using there).

- the PV will be worked out from the date upon which the contract is signed
- with regard working out the PVs, time will start to run from the signature of the contract

Or something along those lines, perhaps?





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Note added at 1 day4 hrs (2015-10-23 19:01:19 GMT)
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Source : http://www.granddictionnaire.com/Resultat.aspx
Peer comment(s):
neutral mchd : désolée Nikki, il ne s'agit pas de "décompter des sommes" mais de faire un décompte/un comptage du nombre de PV.
7 mins
disagree Daryo : you are completely ignoring the second possible meaning of "décompte", taking away from/reducing some amounts, which makes more sense for the specific sentence.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

il s'agit du décompte de PV

Le nombre de PV est comptabilisé ou "décompté" (on en fait le décompte, on détermine le nombre) par période de référence pour appliquer la pénalité de 500 €/PV de non-conformité.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Daryo : the key point in this sentence is not the number of these penalties, not even the total amount but in the fact that they will be deducted from the invoiced amounts
4 hrs
le nombre de PV = le décompte de PV = le montant des pénalités. Procédure courante lorsqu'il s'agit de pièces spécifiques sur plan.La question ne porte que sur "décompte".
agree Germaine : In French, this is the only possible subject.
6 hrs
merci
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Yes. "décompte" as in working out, or the breakdown of the "détail".
1 day 3 hrs
merci, mais il ne s'agit pas de "breakdown of the details" dans le cas présent.
Something went wrong...
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