French term
France
fait et fait faire
would this translation work :
« what is art making, and making do to people who establish it and experiment it”
>> est ce que le make et le do sont correctement employés ?
merci ;)
Mar 16, 2016 15:40: changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"
Mar 16, 2016 17:07: Paula Durrosier changed "Vetting" from "Needs Vetting" to "Vet OK"
Mar 16, 2016 17:23: AllegroTrans changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
PRO (1): Simon Mac
Non-PRO (3): Tony M, mchd, AllegroTrans
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Proposed translations
NO!
The result is gibberish, and does not reflect the source text.
The difference between 'make' and 'do' is something that it is very difficult for non-native speakers to grasp, and this is exactly the wrong way round; although a literal word-by-word approach won't work here anyway, the verb required for this simplistic approcah would in any case be 'do' not 'make'.
In addition, 'making do' is a set expression in idiomatic EN that has a quite different meaning, totally unsuitable here.
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AllegroTrans
: definitely a nono
4 mins
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Thanks, C!
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philgoddard
10 mins
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Thanks, Phil!
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Charles Davis
: Certainly not, but actually, although this is easy to understand, it's not very easy to render well.
16 mins
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Thanks, Charles! Quite... it needs to be completely copy-written from scratch... but that's not really a job for the KudoZ terminology forum.
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Yolanda Broad
2 hrs
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Thanks, Yolanda!
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Sheila Wilson
: Hear, hear
15 hrs
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Thanks, Sheila!
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Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Yes, it requires a full re-write. This post goes beyond the bounds of what ProZ sets out to do.
1 day 55 mins
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Thanks, Nikki!
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United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
is/does, and how it affects
"What art is/does, and how it affects those who own and experience it."
| agree |
Katherine Rutter
7 mins
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| agree |
Charles Davis
: Nicely done
7 mins
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| agree |
Tony M
: That's the right idea, though I feel even this doesn't quite go far enough.
12 mins
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| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Fuller context wld help of course and I think a passive voice (people are affected by...) would flow more naturally. Probably even "what art does and makes people do..." wld be more faithful to the ST, but we need the full sentence and the overall context
1 day 40 mins
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worked for int. orgs (IMF, OAS, IDB)
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
what art does and compels those who created it and lived it
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Sheila Wilson
: Perhaps it needs editing to add "to do" at the end?
4 hrs
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yes but that's the idea
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does and does to
what art does to [those who ...] and what art makes them do
"ce que l’art fait et fait faire à ceux qui l’instaurent et qui en font l’expérience"
is a combination of:
ce que l’art fait à ceux qui l’instaurent et qui en font l’expérience
and
ce que l’art fait faire ceux qui l’instaurent et qui en font l’expérience
IOW the "à" is a false repetition/common element, so even in French it's not strictly correct
and you get the same problem in English with "to", which goes together only with "what art does to [some people] ...." but has no place in "what art make them do"
so I would rearrange it this way:
what art does to [those who ...] and what art makes them do
also "what art makes them do" avoids the possible confusion with "make do"
Discussion
but
"qq. les fait faire" ... = [s.t. / s.o.] makes them do something
The expression "faire faire" can be translated by "to have something done" or "to have something made".
I suspect that the basic problem here is how to translate the construction "faire + INFINITIVE". Might I suggest that you look back to your favourite grammar source for any technical explanation you might wish to check.
Once you understand the construction of the expresssion, you can then move on to adapting a form of words to fit your original context.
P.S. You do not indicate if you are translating this professionally. I agree with colleagues about the dangers of translating into a non native language. However, you may be doing this translation for study purposes. If that is the case, then it would help to say so.