Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
en dehors de la comptabilité
English translation:
without passing through the notary\'s accounts
Added to glossary by
George Young
Oct 15, 2013 08:48
11 yrs ago
20 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
Full-time professional translator
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: French to English, Italian to English
en dehors de la comptabilité
French to English
Law/Patents
Finance (general)
Sollicitor's Letters
This term has appeared in several letters I've had to translate, written by French notaries, seemingly from a template letter.
All of the examples refer to a payment being made between two parties (usually people rather than companies).
An example of a full sentence:
La somme de CENT CIQUANTE QUATRE MILLE EUROS (154.000,00 €), formant le montant de la soulte, sera payée dès avant le jour de la signature de l’acte de partage par Monsieur XX, ****en dehors de la comptabilité**** du notaire par compensation avec une créance de même montant que Monsieur XX détient contre Madame XX suite au partage global de leurs biens dans le cadre de leur procédure de divorce au ROYAUME - UNI.
I presume it means the payment is made privately rather than through the notary but I wondered if anyone can a) confirm that and b) suggest an elegant way of phrasing this in English?
Thanks in advance.
George
All of the examples refer to a payment being made between two parties (usually people rather than companies).
An example of a full sentence:
La somme de CENT CIQUANTE QUATRE MILLE EUROS (154.000,00 €), formant le montant de la soulte, sera payée dès avant le jour de la signature de l’acte de partage par Monsieur XX, ****en dehors de la comptabilité**** du notaire par compensation avec une créance de même montant que Monsieur XX détient contre Madame XX suite au partage global de leurs biens dans le cadre de leur procédure de divorce au ROYAUME - UNI.
I presume it means the payment is made privately rather than through the notary but I wondered if anyone can a) confirm that and b) suggest an elegant way of phrasing this in English?
Thanks in advance.
George
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +4 | without passing through the notary's accounts |
Marie-Helene Dubois
|
| 4 | outside notary's trust account |
Albena Dimitrova
|
| 3 | directly |
Terry Richards
|
Change log
Oct 15, 2013 10:30: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Law (general)" to "Finance (general)"
Proposed translations
+4
44 mins
Marie-Helene Dubois
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Specializes in field
Spain
Word class
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, Dutch to English, French to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
76
Selected
without passing through the notary's accounts
I'm not sure of the best way to express this in English but I do understand what it means.
You could also say "without passing through the notary's accounts" or "between the parties and without the notary's involvement" or anything that means the same.
When something is quoted as being "hors la comptabilité du notaire", it means that the amount has not passed through the notary's accounts and therefore the notary makes no express confirmation of this payment being made, or in other words, the payment has not occurred before the notary.
This happens where a notary does not take this sum into his/her client trust account so it's basically a disclaimer as the notary has no way of knowing whether this payment has in fact been made.
Under French notary law, this places the burden of proof on a person who claims that the payment has not been made, rather than placing the responsibility on the notary.
I think that by "la comptabilité", "accounts" are meant rather than "accounting".
It is also sometimes called "hors la vue du notaire".
See:
Lors d’une vente notariée, paiement direct entre l’acheteur et le vendeur, sans passer par le notaire. On parle aussi de paiement hors la comptabilité du notaire.
Paiement hors la vue du notaire
http://www.droitissimo.com/lexique-juridique/terme/paiement-...
La mention, dans un acte de vente notarié, d'un paiement du prix intervenu hors la vue ou hors la comptabilité du notaire faisant foi jusqu'à preuve contraire, il incombe au tiers à l'acte qui la conteste de démontrer par tous moyens l'absence de paiement effectif.
http://avocats.fr/space/gabriel.neu-janicki/content/_c547d03...
and also see a similar question that has already been asked:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/real_estate/2648...
The asker in this case chose "'not going through the accounts of the notary"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 45 mins (2013-10-15 09:33:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In my first sentence I meant to say "you could also say "directly between the parties""
You could also say "without passing through the notary's accounts" or "between the parties and without the notary's involvement" or anything that means the same.
When something is quoted as being "hors la comptabilité du notaire", it means that the amount has not passed through the notary's accounts and therefore the notary makes no express confirmation of this payment being made, or in other words, the payment has not occurred before the notary.
This happens where a notary does not take this sum into his/her client trust account so it's basically a disclaimer as the notary has no way of knowing whether this payment has in fact been made.
Under French notary law, this places the burden of proof on a person who claims that the payment has not been made, rather than placing the responsibility on the notary.
I think that by "la comptabilité", "accounts" are meant rather than "accounting".
It is also sometimes called "hors la vue du notaire".
See:
Lors d’une vente notariée, paiement direct entre l’acheteur et le vendeur, sans passer par le notaire. On parle aussi de paiement hors la comptabilité du notaire.
Paiement hors la vue du notaire
http://www.droitissimo.com/lexique-juridique/terme/paiement-...
La mention, dans un acte de vente notarié, d'un paiement du prix intervenu hors la vue ou hors la comptabilité du notaire faisant foi jusqu'à preuve contraire, il incombe au tiers à l'acte qui la conteste de démontrer par tous moyens l'absence de paiement effectif.
http://avocats.fr/space/gabriel.neu-janicki/content/_c547d03...
and also see a similar question that has already been asked:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/real_estate/2648...
The asker in this case chose "'not going through the accounts of the notary"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 45 mins (2013-10-15 09:33:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In my first sentence I meant to say "you could also say "directly between the parties""
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
writeaway
: as the (con)text clearly states. All the answers were wrong in the last Kudoz question so Asker had to figure it out alone.
25 mins
|
|
Indeed. I think the asker's solution was good, albeit not particularly neat. I just don't think that there's any way of expressing the same idea and being neat at the same time :-)
|
|
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
2 hrs
|
|
thanks
|
|
| agree |
AllegroTrans
4 hrs
|
|
thx
|
|
| agree |
B D Finch
1 day 11 mins
|
|
thanks
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to all for their help with this one. I worked the "without the notary's involvement" into my sentence in the end."
11 mins
Albena Dimitrova
Bulgaria
Bulgaria
Works in field
Bulgaria
Technical, Medical & Legal translations
Native in: Bulgarian 
Works in: English to Bulgarian, French to Bulgarian, Bulgarian to English, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
outside notary's trust account
I think it refers to "comptabilité en fidéicommis".
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: imo may be too specific.
59 mins
|
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: "trust account" is not in the ST
8 hrs
|
1 hr
Terry Richards
France
France
Native in English
France
30 years in IT, Engineering degree.
Native in: English (Variants: US, British, UK)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
directly
short & sweet!
The money is paid directly to Mme. XXX
The money is paid directly to Mme. XXX
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Peter LEGUIE
: I agree, but it may or not be registered in the notary's books.
56 mins
|
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: in principle yes, but it needs to be more specific and to mention the notary to avoid any doubt as to meaning
4 hrs
|
Discussion