Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
cellier / cave
English translation:
store-room / pantry / larder vs. cellar / store
Added to glossary by
French2English
Feb 23, 2007 08:35
17 yrs ago
7 viewers *
French term
cellier / cave
French to English
Science
Wine / Oenology / Viticulture
wine cellars
I have looked up these two terms in various places, including the Proz glossaries, but am still unsure of the distinction. I know that there is also there term 'caveau'... which I have appearing elsewhere in the same text...but for the time being I am just concerned with the above two terms. I suspect that a 'cellier' is smaller than a 'cave' and has a different function... but I wondered if there is an expert who could explain what distinction I could reasonably make in the passage below (see last point):
Visitez la Maison du Vigneron du 16ème siècle, où l’on remarque surtout :
- la cuisine avec ses ustensiles anciens,
- une chambre avec son mobilier,
- dans le ***cellier et la cave***divers objets qui rappellent le travail du tonnelier et du vigneron.
Thanks in advance for any advice, and cheers!
Visitez la Maison du Vigneron du 16ème siècle, où l’on remarque surtout :
- la cuisine avec ses ustensiles anciens,
- une chambre avec son mobilier,
- dans le ***cellier et la cave***divers objets qui rappellent le travail du tonnelier et du vigneron.
Thanks in advance for any advice, and cheers!
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +7 | store-room / pantry / larder vs. cellar / store |
Tony M
![]() |
5 | wine-cellar/basement |
Benedicte Taillard
![]() |
4 +1 | think "whales" |
Bourth (X)
![]() |
4 | Wine store |
Roland Marshall
![]() |
Proposed translations
+7
39 mins
Selected
store-room / pantry / larder vs. cellar / store
Very often, "cellier" is a room where things liked bottled fruit etc. are stored, so to me, a kind of "larder"; it may well not be underground, but often conveys the idea of a food store.
"cave" is usually more what we think of as a cellar; note, though, that even so, it may not be underground! In your case, it may well be a cellar specifically for storing wine, though soemtimes it is used in a much more egenral sense as a glory-hole (cf. the cages or other storage facilities in the basements of blocks of flats)
I don't think you can make any assumptions about size or even location, it's more to do with their function.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days3 hrs (2007-02-25 12:16:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
If this is indeed a 16th c. "wine-grower's" house, then I think you can fairly safely assume that this usage is going to be typical of old houses, with the "cellier" as some kind of food store and the "cave" as probably principally a wine cellar. Sometimes they will be located in different places, like cellier on the ground floor next to the kitchen, or in some outbuilding, whereas the cave could well be (semi-)underground; but sometimes, you find them adjacent in the basement (or elsewhere!) — it's really odd when some throws open a door and says "voici le cellier", and then the door next to it and says "et voilà la cave !"
It might be considered that a "cave" will have been specifically intended to stay cool all year round, and to this end, very often had an earth floor, whereas the cellier might possibly have been kept a little drier. However, as with all these things, there are about as many different possibilities as there are old houses!
"cave" is usually more what we think of as a cellar; note, though, that even so, it may not be underground! In your case, it may well be a cellar specifically for storing wine, though soemtimes it is used in a much more egenral sense as a glory-hole (cf. the cages or other storage facilities in the basements of blocks of flats)
I don't think you can make any assumptions about size or even location, it's more to do with their function.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days3 hrs (2007-02-25 12:16:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
If this is indeed a 16th c. "wine-grower's" house, then I think you can fairly safely assume that this usage is going to be typical of old houses, with the "cellier" as some kind of food store and the "cave" as probably principally a wine cellar. Sometimes they will be located in different places, like cellier on the ground floor next to the kitchen, or in some outbuilding, whereas the cave could well be (semi-)underground; but sometimes, you find them adjacent in the basement (or elsewhere!) — it's really odd when some throws open a door and says "voici le cellier", and then the door next to it and says "et voilà la cave !"
It might be considered that a "cave" will have been specifically intended to stay cool all year round, and to this end, very often had an earth floor, whereas the cellier might possibly have been kept a little drier. However, as with all these things, there are about as many different possibilities as there are old houses!
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Looks like Tony has the tide on his side on this one, and I agree, mostly. Interesting discussion, and thanks to all contributors. "
39 mins
wine-cellar/basement
Cave refers to basement in general, although by extension, can be used to refer to the wine-cellar, or "cave à vin", whereas cellier is specifically a wine-cellar. Also "cave" is now used in France to refer to a wine shop
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: I don't think it is possible to generalise in this way, my own experience has been quite the reverse... / "cave" is indeed sometimes used for a wine shop (amongst other terms, of course)
2 mins
|
agree |
Julie Barber
: Given this very specific context, I think that it would be fair to make this distinction - le travail du tonnelier et du vigneron
1 hr
|
disagree |
Roland Marshall
: Having just visited my local one, 'Caviste' is the word used for wine store in France
8 hrs
|
+1
57 mins
think "whales"
If a French report says a whale ship harvested 20 "baleines" and 10 "cachalots", the easiest thing to do is say it harvested 30 whales (unless it is really useful to make the distinction).
In this case, the place has a "cellar".
In this case, the place has a "cellar".
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Claire Cox
: Yes - with cellars not whales! I suppose you could say "various cellars" to convey the fact that there are more than one
7 mins
|
neutral |
Tony M
: In principle, I quite agree; except that as we've said, these may not be actual underground cellars (as is usually implied in EN), so it may be as well to use terms that avoid that implication...
1 hr
|
neutral |
Sheila Wilson
: not necessarily (underground) cellars, but definitely store rooms
10 hrs
|
9 hrs
Wine store
I'm poaching from Tony a little here, but might the above term not be a sufficiently global term to encompass both? Though a bit vague, it could be a possible solution.
Something went wrong...