CATs that allow disabling of segmentation
Thread poster: Annaana
Annaana
Local time: 00:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
Jun 17, 2016

Hi,

I browsed a little, still couldn't find an answer.

The question is simple:
Is there a CAT that allows complete disabling of segmentation?

I once tried all trial versions available, before deciding what to buy, and gave up before even trying to customize them.

I'm not into downloading and trying all of them again if there are professionals who already use them and know immediately what I need.

Thank you in advance!


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:37
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
What's left? Jun 17, 2016

Annaana wrote:
Is there a CAT that allows complete disabling of segmentation?

What would you see as the advantages of using a CAT without any segmentation? I can't visualise it. I suppose it could convert number formats for you, put a space before punctuation if appropriate, but what else?


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Rodolfo Raya  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:37
English to Spanish
Swordfish has that option Jun 17, 2016

Hi,

In Swordfish you can select "Paragraph Segmentation" when processing documents. When that option is selected, the program uses the structure of the original document instead of trying to segment text at sentence level.

That works great when you work with non technical prose and you don't expect many matches from TM.

Regards,
Rodolfo


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Annaana
Local time: 00:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Termbase Jun 17, 2016

I need CATs for a fast termbase (main thing), and this would be of great help while I'm translating. An instant visual suggestion.

I've been translating since ages and I simply can't understand the point of segmentation. I've been trying this CAT things, trying... and it only slows me down.
I usually need to translate very very quickly. Five pages - one or two hours. Every minute is important, always. The very action of opening a CAT, project, loading... cuts me precious several minutes.
I don't need segmentation. It disturbs (visually) the meaning, cuts off the phrases that should be together and so on. It slows me down.
I don't get the explanation of "this way, you won't miss a word". How can I miss a word or sentence? How is it possible to not see a paragraph and just skip it?

I don't know how the termbase would work without it though.

@Rodolfo

Thank you. I will test it.


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:37
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
OmegaT Jun 17, 2016

In OmegaT, you can disable sentence segmentation and turn on paragraph segmentation anytime (and revert if necessary).

[Edited at 2016-06-17 17:14 GMT]


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Alexander Somin  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 00:37
Member (2014)
English to Russian
+ ...
Across, Studio. Jun 17, 2016

You could find this option in Across.
in Studio: go to Project Settings->Language Pairs->Translation Memory and AT->Settings->Language Resources->Segmentation Rules and hit Edit. You'll find 2 options: either Paragraph based or Sentence based segmentation.
In memoQ: it is also possible, but is a bit complicated and you'll need to define your segmentation rules anew in Resources->Segmentation Rules.

[Edited at 2016-06-17 20:49 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:37
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
You want to segment by page, then? Jun 17, 2016

Annaana wrote:
Is there a CAT that allows complete disabling of segmentation?


No, because without segmentation, the CAT tool won't be able to offer any suggestions during translation. And no, because then concordance searches would be practically useless, as any search result will show the entire file that the search string occurs in, instead of the sentence or paragraph in which it occurs.

Most CAT tools do allow you to disable sentence segmentation, i.e. to use so-called paragraph segmentation. In some cases, this would be useful to you. However, even with "paragraph" segmentation, the items in e.g. a list would often still be given as separate segments.

I once tried all trial versions available, before deciding what to buy, and gave up before even trying to customize them. ... I'm not into downloading and trying all of them again if there are professionals who already use them and know immediately what I need.


Sure, no problem.

OmegaT: Press Ctrl+E (project properties) and deselect "Enable sentence-level segmenting" (only available if you have a project open)

Wordfast Classic: Click WFC icon, then go to Settings > General, double-click "End-of-segment punctuation", and type a space.

Wordfast Pro 3: Go Edit > Preferences > Translations > Segmentation Settings. Then disable "wfsegmentation.properties" and enable "breaksegmentation.properties".

Wordfast Pro 4: Click the icon that starts with three horizontal dashes (as if it's a mobile app), and then click Preferences. Go to Segmentation, and remove everything.

Trados 2007: Run Translators' Workbench, then go File > Setup > Segmentation Rules, and then delete all options.

Trados 2015: Go to Translation Memory view, then right-click your TM and select Settings > Language Resources > Segmentation Rules and click Edit. Then do some stuff there. I'm not sure what'll happen if you use multiple TMs.

MemoQ: Go to a project's "home" page, click the Settings button, then click the Segmentation Rules button (it uses mystery meat navigation). Right-click you're project's rule set and select "Edit". Then remove everything.

...and now you know which CAT tools I have on my computer.


[Edited at 2016-06-17 20:30 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:37
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
For you, I'd suggest Wordfast Classic Jun 17, 2016

Annaana wrote:
I usually need to translate very very quickly. Five pages - one or two hours. Every minute is important, always. The very action of opening a CAT, project, loading... cuts me precious several minutes.


Then I would recommend Wordfast Classic. You have to change the settings once, but from then on your settings are always the same (unless you change them again or create an alternative profile), and if your TMs and glossaries are located in a location that is fixed (i.e. not in a folder that you move around) (and you always use the same TMs and glossaries, which I think would suit you), you can start translating immediately. When you're done, just click the "Quick Clean" button.

I don't know how the termbase would work without it though.


You don't need [sentence] segmentation to make a termbase (glossary) work. You do need segmentation to make a translation memory work, but it will work with paragraph segmentation just fine.


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DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Remembered Jun 17, 2016

Once there was SnowBall (from Total Recall ApS), which used a different (unusual, non-standard) approach with free segmentation rules right in MS Word environment; it looked promising (check youtube, if interesting).

However, now its trmem.com seems down, alas; no other innovations appeared to be viable (even for awhile).


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CafeTran Training
Netherlands
Local time: 00:37
Member (2016)
Felix Jun 18, 2016

If I've understood Michael Beijer correctly, Felix offers you the flexibility in segmentation that you are looking for. It allows you to select any chunk of a document opened in MS Word yourself.

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Annaana
Local time: 00:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Trying it again Jun 18, 2016

Thank you all for your suggestions and help, especially Samuel, for such a detailed explanation.

I guess I shall try again this thing and try to get used to it this time.


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CafeTran Training
Netherlands
Local time: 00:37
Member (2016)
Segmentation in Felix Jun 18, 2016

Michael wrote:

Segmentation is even easier in Felix: you just select whatever you want to constitute your source segment (including semicolons or colon, if you want), and press Alt+L. You then type your translation over that, and save it to your TM. Then on to the next sentence. Felix leaves nothing behind but your translation. That is: no hidden codes, no bilingual, uncleaned mess, which will invariably cause something to go wrong when trying to finalise/clean your files at the end of the job.

In my opinion, the developer of Felix had a brilliant idea: if you want to work in Word, you really want to work in Word, you don't want to do it half way (like Wordfast Classic, Anaphraseus, MetaTexis and LogiTerm — the other Word-based CAT tools). That is, you don't want to be forced to translate inside some special little dialogue (like in LogiTerm), and you don't want to litter your document with hidden codes, so you mess up the page visually. One of the main reasons for translating in Word (in addition to finally getting to benefit from Dragon's Full Text Control!!) is so you can retain the original context, and be free to move sentences around willy nilly, wherever and whenever you see fit. In Felix, this is no problem. In the other tools it can be really difficult once a section is translated to go back and make major changes to it. Not so in Felix.

Also keep in mind that until very recently, Felix was a tool that you had to pay for, but which is now 100% free.


[Edited at 2016-06-18 08:37 GMT]


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Annaana
Local time: 00:37
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
WYSIWYG Jun 18, 2016

To be sincere, I think I wouldn't even have problem with segmentation if it wasn't for visible tags. I just need to see which one offers it as a wysiwyg and I'm good.

Maybe I rushed a little with opening this topic.

I see Samuel's reply in other topic about this:
"The only current CAT tools that offer WYSIWYG in the true, original sense of the word, are Wordfast Classic, Metatexis and Felix. Very old versions of Trados also offered it."

I'll try it this way first.


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 23:37
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Paragraph segmentation Jun 20, 2016

Annaana wrote:
I see Samuel's reply in other topic about this:
"The only current CAT tools that offer WYSIWYG in the true, original sense of the word, are Wordfast Classic, Metatexis and Felix. Very old versions of Trados also offered it."

I'll try it this way first.

Wordfast Classic certainly offers paragraph segmentation. I thought all CATs did, but maybe that's because Wf Classic is the only one I really use (although I've dabbled with Wf Pro and Anywhere).


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