| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Pro/non-Pro Thread poster: Susanna Garcia
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cmwilliams (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:24
French to English
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
Suggestion: change the definition of a Non-Pro question to read "a question that can be answered by any bilingual person or with the aid of a general bilingual dictionary.
A second example of wishy-washy wording: "Help translators help you: providing context for the term for which you are seeking help is a valuable tool for potential answerers."
It is not just a "valuable tool" - it's ESSENTIAL!
Yes, I agree that changes need to be made. However, as a registered user, I am not able to participate in the surveys Beatriz mentioned, even though I continue to contribute to the site via Kudoz.
| | | | juvera
Local time: 16:24
English to Hungarian
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| The flipside | Dec 30, 2010 |
PRO - a question that is suitable for professional translators
Non-PRO - a question that can be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary
There is another reason why the above definitions should be changed.
Lots of people, especially new ones to the site think that PRO means the person asking the question has to be a professional translator, so if they are not, they label their question Non-PRO, regardless of the difficulty.
It is rather tedious to point out each time when a complex question is posted that it is a bit naïve to classify it as Non-PRO. The reply is inevitably: "Oh, I thought I would have to label it as non-pro, because I am not a professional translator".
| | | | | The flip flip side | Dec 30, 2010 |
juvera wrote: PRO - a question that is suitable for professional translators
Non-PRO - a question that can be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary There is another reason why the above definitions should be changed. Lots of people, especially new ones to the site think that PRO means the person asking the question has to be a professional translator, so if they are not, they label their question Non-PRO, regardless of the difficulty. It is rather tedious to point out each time when a complex question is posted that it is a bit naïve to classify it as Non-PRO. The reply is inevitably: "Oh, I thought I would have to label it as non-pro, because I am not a professional translator".
Likewise, lots of pro translators believe the question relates to their 'status', so they feel that any question they ask simply 'has' to be pro, even if it's basic everyday language and can be found by opening any dictionary.
So yes, the definitions should be changed
[Edited at 2010-12-30 17:51 GMT]
| | | | | Sure, I agree | Dec 30, 2010 |
writeaway wrote:
Likewise, lots of pro translator believe the question relates to their 'status', so they feel that any question they ask simply 'has' to be pro, even if it's basic everyday language and can be found by opening any dictionary.
So yes, the definitions should be changed
However, on the other hand there are professional translators who systematically vote NON Pro, just to decrease the value of the answer, in my opinion this could be one of the reasons why now 3 votes are required to change a pro/ non-pro question.
So, ethic is needed I think.
Happy New Year to all!
Edit just to say that I am not referring to kudoZ of mine, it is just a behaviour I noticed.
[Edited at 2010-12-30 21:43 GMT]
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Are you reading this? What do you think? Sheila's suggestion is a good one and would presumably be fairly easy to implement.
| | | | | Requiring 3 votes was an excellent idea | Dec 30, 2010 |
Prof. Angie G. wrote: writeaway wrote:
Likewise, lots of pro translator believe the question relates to their 'status', so they feel that any question they ask simply 'has' to be pro, even if it's basic everyday language and can be found by opening any dictionary.
So yes, the definitions should be changed However, on the other hand there are professional translators who systematically vote NON Pro, also in pair they do NOT work just to dicrease the value of the answer, in my opinion this could be one of the reasons why now 3 votes are required to change a pro/ non-pro question. So, ethic is needed I think. Happy New Year to all! [Edited at 2010-12-30 17:49 GMT]
Now one person can't change the category. I don't think people voting pro or non-pro have any ulterior motives. Anyway, speculation about such things is against the ruleZ. There are currently far too many very basic terms asked as 'pro' which are everyday words in the real world. It's really about difficulties and someone translating into a source language or even between 2 foreign languages is going to find difficulties where there really aren't any. A "pro" question should be difficult for most people and not just for people struggling with a text they can't do. If one can find the term by opening any dictionary or by thinking for a second or two, then it's not a real difficulty. If a lot of research and thought is involved or a true specialist is needed to sort it out, then it really is a 'pro' question.
Imo, the word 'pro' is batted around too much on the site and ends up being used and abused.
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writeaway wrote:
Likewise, lots of pro translator believe the question relates to their 'status', so they feel that any question they ask simply 'has' to be pro, even if it's basic everyday language and can be found by opening any dictionary.
So yes, the definitions should be changed
Speculation is against the rule, I will be more than happy to change my post should a moderator ask me to do that, I am sorry my intention was just to point out another issue other than the one you referred to and which is quoted above, I had no intention to speculate.
I agree that requiring 3 votes was a great idea, I agree with all your statements, I just added one I have noticed especially last year when I was a kudoZ mod.
[Edited at 2010-12-30 21:45 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 16:24
Member (2007)
English
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| The nub of the Pro question | Dec 30, 2010 |
writeaway wrote:
If a lot of research and thought is involved or a true specialist is needed to sort it out, then it really is a 'pro' question.
We've all been in the position, I'm sure, of complaining "I understand all the words, but what on earth are they trying to say?"
That's one type of KudoZ "Pro" question - no good looking anything up in a dictionary if you already know what the words mean, but research may track it down to some local or recent expression or even a misuse. This may need help from peers.
The other "Pro" question is obscure terminology, the jargon of the subject area. That might need the help of a true specialist until you become one yourself.
| | | | | On the names of these categories | Dec 30, 2010 |
This classification was created to handle questions that could be answered in the context provided by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary.
Do you think that it would be better to replace the names of these categories with "standard" and "basic" instead of "PRO" and "non-PRO"? (other options possible, of course).
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | The names are OK | Dec 30, 2010 |
Hello Enrique,
I would leave the names and simply redefine the Non-Pro following Sheila's suggestion:
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Suggestion: change the definition of a Non-Pro question to read "a question that can be answered by any bilingual person or with the aid of a general bilingual dictionary.
I also support her second suggestion:
A second example of wishy-washy wording: "Help translators help you: providing context for the term for which you are seeking help is a valuable tool for potential answerers."
It is not just a "valuable tool" - it's ESSENTIAL!
| | | | | The old "easy" | Dec 30, 2010 |
Hello Enrique
I liked the clear "easy" used some years ago.
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| Pro vs. help | Dec 30, 2010 |
Enrique wrote:
This classification was created to handle questions that could be answered in the context provided by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary.
Do you think that it would be better to replace the names of these categories with "standard" and "basic" instead of "PRO" and "non-PRO"? (other options possible, of course).
Regards,
Enrique
I think it would be a good idea to restore the original glossary-building function to Pro questions and relabel non-pro "help KudoZ" with all that that entails. In the new "help" KudoZ very few restrictions would be placed on askers. They wouldn't be expected to be pro translators with research skills and a good set of specialist dictionaries. If Pro questions had two main goals in mind: helping pro translators with challenging questions and building a good glossary for all to use, the formulation of questions would have to meet higher standards. Site rule 2.1 would no longer be a guideline, but a requirement.
[Edited at 2010-12-30 21:53 GMT]
| | | | | Perhaps we need three categories: | Dec 30, 2010 |
Pro = colleague, fellow professional
Spo = sponger, freeloader (Questions: 1,578; Answers: 0)
Gen Pub = Casual visitors with a one-off query ( I love you in Armenian)
| | | | Susanna Garcia
Local time: 16:24
Italian to English
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TOPIC STARTER In memoriam
Andrew Swift wrote:
Pro = colleague, fellow professional
Spo = sponger, freeloader (Questions: 1,578; Answers: 0)
Gen Pub = Casual visitors with a one-off query ( I love you in Armenian)
To go with the Spo, you could have the Schmo - that's the person answering and doing the Spo's work for nothing!
I don't appear even to be able to vote non-pro.
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