| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Do you think Proz should add Trados certification as translators search criteria? Thread poster: Pablo Bouvier
|
|---|
jmd (X) 
Local time: 22:51
English to Slovenian
+ ...
| IOL and ATA certification instead of this as criteria for quality providers | Aug 19, 2007 |
[quote]cmwilliams wrote:
It's not about advertising as such. It's the 'partnership' with Proz and the way it's being advertised by SDL on this site that is extremely worrying and misleading. <
>Of course we, as translators, realise that using a particular CAT tool doesn't necessarily guarantee excellence, but it may just be enough to convince an end client who has no experience of the language business. <
>> It would make more sense to have membership of ATA or IOL listed as one of the main criteria. <
>I feel that this 'partnership' with SDL has very serious consequences and I can only hope that Henry will take our concerns seriously.<
[Edited at 2007-08-19 14:00]
[Edited at 2007-08-19 19:35]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Erm... what exactly are the concerns? | Aug 19, 2007 |
jmd wrote:
I would urge you all to write to the EU competition authorities as well as to our local associations, IOL and ATA to express our concerns.
* We are concerned that the biggest provider of CAT tools take steps to ensure that users of their tools know how to use them. To add insult to injury, they offering exams in the use of their tool, and they give a certificate to users who have passed. And if that isn't bad enough, they promote this certification process among would-be clients as a means to determine whether users know how their tools work.
* We are concerned that the biggest online jobs portal for translators allow clients to invite quotes from translators, without contacting them one by one. But it doesn't stop there... they now allow clients to specify which translators are allowed to quote, based on stuff like language combination, native language, experience, residence, price, etc. Well, clearly this is an underhanded mechanism to force translators to translate into more language combinations, translate irrespective of native language, inflate their experience, lie about where they live, and quote 1c per word... else they get left behind and no-one will ever, ever give them a job.
Sorry for the little humour there, but the question is... what would you tell these competition authorities? What exactly is it that SDL/Trados and ProZ.com are doing wrong?
Simply crying "unfair, unfair" because you're not getting the sweet end of the deal, is likely not going to fly with those authorities. Or is it?
[Edited at 2007-08-19 17:06]
[Edited at 2007-08-19 17:08]
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 22:51
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | My concerns... | Aug 19, 2007 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
What exactly is it that SDL/Trados and ProZ.com are doing wrong?
This is a good question: the more precise we are in our discussion, the better basis for understanding.
My biggest concern is that the feature has been introduced as an effect of backroom agreement between SDL and ProZ. This is unlike most other features of ProZ, which are suggested publicly, discussed, fine tuned and only then introduced to the site.
As I understand, this move was initiated by SDL, not requested by outsourcers or translators. I am not an outsourcer, therefore I cannot be sure, but I have an impression they were not consulted at all beforehand. In my opinion, if they were asked, they would provide suggestions for all kinds of other certificates and titles which are much more relevant to translation, as many here pointed out.
Therefore, in this particular case the jobs system and the translator search was shaped by what the strategic partnership with SDL dictated, not by what the outsourcers ("the persons in need") required. This, I feel, is against the cornerstone 6 of ProZ, which Henry was kind enough to quote.
As a result, SDL has gained an undue prominence on the site, which I consider a form of (thinly) veiled advertising. This I find disturbing - I have nothing against ads, but they should be clearly marked as such and should not put other CAT providers (or any other entities) at a disadvantage.
Favoring one particular software vendor does not, in my opinion, go too well with the cornerstone 4 - "Relationships are based on mutual respect, fairness and professionalism" - no mention of "strategic partnerships" there...
| | | | jmd (X)
Local time: 22:51
English to Slovenian
+ ...
| what is it that SDL and Proz are doing wrong | Aug 19, 2007 |
Samuel,
SDL equals their certification with quality and ProZ has advertised this new option for SDL certified filtering on their web page with the same diction.
They asked you, paying members, for your opinion after having already advertised it.
I'm not a paying member. I keep a profile so that I can browse the forums occasionally and perhaps be of help as I move along. Perhaps that is why I fail to see what would be "the sweet end of the deal" that you m... See more Samuel,
SDL equals their certification with quality and ProZ has advertised this new option for SDL certified filtering on their web page with the same diction.
They asked you, paying members, for your opinion after having already advertised it.
I'm not a paying member. I keep a profile so that I can browse the forums occasionally and perhaps be of help as I move along. Perhaps that is why I fail to see what would be "the sweet end of the deal" that you mention.
Mia Dintinjana
Dip Trans IOL
[Edited at 2007-08-19 19:43] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Brandis (X)
Local time: 22:51
English to German
+ ...
| My concern... | Aug 19, 2007 |
I feel personally that sdl trados or proz.com together with sdl people or even together with microsoft or whichever company try to market this certification stuff to the agencies. I am sure there is a better market. I believe when agencies squeeze themseves understanding this stuff and the project managers as well with some knowledge of trados or any other tool will also come up with that kind of online help in their own way to save their own projects being executec by a translator, who sometime... See more I feel personally that sdl trados or proz.com together with sdl people or even together with microsoft or whichever company try to market this certification stuff to the agencies. I am sure there is a better market. I believe when agencies squeeze themseves understanding this stuff and the project managers as well with some knowledge of trados or any other tool will also come up with that kind of online help in their own way to save their own projects being executec by a translator, who sometimes sits there speechless and silent and not getting the right idea. Currently I have one such miserable outsourcer in the queue. But that is not the point. When I see postings sdl trados finshing is required and miserable image files are sent at USd0.03 per word agreement or even a cent more these things reflect automatically that these outsourcers have absolutely no knowledge of the workings, yet they are company owners and PMs and or even linguists. One never knows what kind of a file it is and in which format it comes. If I were sdl I would concentrate more on selling such a cerfitiation to agencies, because normally they communicate with multiple translators or have many in-house translators to whom they can impart this education to, and there is a large agency list at proz-DB. Why go for freelancers. Sounds like a butcher´s field. If I get this certification for free being a long years of trados user, I have no problem, but no sir this is linked with the latest version 2007 and that apparently has been tuned to vista and Office 2007- I am currently running sp xp2 annd office 2003 with SDL Trados 2006 and I am happy with all the results I get without having to invest any further for a while. I am getting my unicode effect. Can somebody explain me why I should go for this certification or anyone in my position at all should go for it. I am not rejecting a SDL trados product, trados is a good tool and I have used it many years and I shall also use further. This certification with further issues attached to it is certainly not for me.I have never experienced such a badly organized product launching strategy. Best regards, Brandis
[Edited at 2007-08-19 19:41]
[Edited at 2007-08-19 19:45]
[Edited at 2007-08-19 22:11] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:51
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Do you have a URL? | Aug 19, 2007 |
jmd wrote:
SDL equals their certification with quality...
Hello JMD (didn't realise you are Mia... hello Mia!)
Do you have a URL for this claim?
| | | |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Do you have a URL for this claim?
The second link in the first posting of this thread.
But I guess as soon as this letter will be put in a clear way, it won't be necessary to send it anymore.
| | | | Mike Kidd (X)
United States
| Feedback is important | Aug 20, 2007 |
Hello,
Thank you all for your time discussing these important issues.
My intent with the press release and with the “partnership” is to have our community leverage the position of a relatively large global company with a recognized brand and access to a significant number of potential end clients.
With this press release, in addition to its message on a product certification, SDL TRADOS Technologies publicly showcases ProZ.com (to all of their custo... See more Hello,
Thank you all for your time discussing these important issues.
My intent with the press release and with the “partnership” is to have our community leverage the position of a relatively large global company with a recognized brand and access to a significant number of potential end clients.
With this press release, in addition to its message on a product certification, SDL TRADOS Technologies publicly showcases ProZ.com (to all of their customers, prospects and business contacts) as the leading destination on the Internet to find and work with language professionals.
My hope is that by their doing so, more clients will come to our site and directly work with our community members. Time will tell whether this approach will yield its desired affect. Related, I would certainly welcome the opportunity to work in similar fashion with our other advertising partners.
The mention of “quality” in the release as I read its intention, refers to the process, aligning, formatting, file type and terminology consistency with which such software can assist human translation. Your feedback on how this topic is presented is noted and it is clear to me that we need to be more specific in our communications going forward.
Comments from this forum are valuable and we are absorbing them all. Again, if any of you want to address any of these matters directly with me, please feel free – I stated my contact details earlier in the thread. I would look forward to the exchange.
Best to all,
Mike ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| Imaginative interpretation | Aug 20, 2007 |
Mike Kidd wrote:
The mention of “quality” in the release as I read its intention, refers to the process, aligning, formatting, file type and terminology consistency with which such software can assist human translation.
With all due respect, I admire your lively imagination. What the press release said is completely different:
ProZ.com Integrates SDL TRADOS Certification into Translator Search Criteria
Industry leaders partner to enhance opportunities for translators and facilitate standards for the translation supply chain
(...)
SDL TRADOS Certification provides peace of mind for end-user corporations looking to deliver high quality translations.
They talk about "high quality translations".
In the interest of honesty and truth, this should be replaced by your more detailed definition quoted above. Do you have the freedom to edit SDL's press release in this way? Or would they be willing to put a bit more honesty into the rhetoric?
Otherwise, for the sake of the credibility of ProZ as a "translator's workplace", you should at least admit that the press release is misleading and manipulative and that it is not, in fact, in keeping with the ethical standards of ProZ.
| | | | Stefan Pecen
Local time: 22:51
Member (2006)
English to Slovak
+ ...
| What would Agatha Christie ask and propose as a solution | Aug 20, 2007 |
I fully support the points raised by Victor.
One should ask, what might be the possible explanation of this precarious sentence finding its way in the press release (i mean: SDL TRADOS Certification provides peace of mind for end-user corporations looking to deliver high quality translations):
1. complete absence of any idea of translation quality attributes
2. poor English knowledge
3. something even more threatening to independence of this forum
... See more I fully support the points raised by Victor.
One should ask, what might be the possible explanation of this precarious sentence finding its way in the press release (i mean: SDL TRADOS Certification provides peace of mind for end-user corporations looking to deliver high quality translations):
1. complete absence of any idea of translation quality attributes
2. poor English knowledge
3. something even more threatening to independence of this forum
If proz is eager to maintain respect, while promoting CAT tools and their professional use, the scheme could look as follows:
1. various CAT vendors applying for certification of their users on proz as an independent entity (for consideration, obviously)
2. proz setting up a panel of specialists preparing relevant, application targeted set of tests/exams etc.
3. proz members applying for certification ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Copycat compulsion? | Aug 20, 2007 |
Stephen wrote:
If proz is eager to maintain respect, while promoting CAT tools and their professional use, the scheme could look as follows:
1. various CAT vendors applying for certification of their users on proz as an independent entity (for consideration, obviously)
2. proz setting up a panel of specialists preparing relevant, application targeted set of tests/exams etc.
3. proz members applying for certification
Why should the other CAT vendors jump on the SDL Trados bandwagon? Even the committed users of SDL Trados do not wholeheartedly support the certification, and some have stated in this thread that it is not worth the trouble for them.
There are good reasons for the other CAT vendors to refrain from the certification spiral. Especially because most of them are not so keen on inventing more and more reasons for translators to pay them more and more cash, they simply want to offer a good tool for what they consider to be a fair price.
| | | | Stefan Pecen
Local time: 22:51
Member (2006)
English to Slovak
+ ...
Sorry for misunderstanding
What I meant under CAT vendors are SDLX, Star Transit, WordFast, Deja Vu etc., not translation vendors using CAT tools
And why certification - it is not on top of my priorities, I was just reflecting on what scheme could be put in place if anybody really wants certification
I believe certification could be reasonable if implemented by an independent body, not by the company itself (or by public administration bodies, e.g. such as ... See more Sorry for misunderstanding
What I meant under CAT vendors are SDLX, Star Transit, WordFast, Deja Vu etc., not translation vendors using CAT tools
And why certification - it is not on top of my priorities, I was just reflecting on what scheme could be put in place if anybody really wants certification
I believe certification could be reasonable if implemented by an independent body, not by the company itself (or by public administration bodies, e.g. such as for sworn translators/interpreters) ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| Another question.. | Aug 21, 2007 |
If I select Not Certified in the dropdown box of the below table on my profile's Certification/Edit page, will this help outsourcers who are looking for
explicitly not SDL Trados certified users to find me?
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 21:51
German to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Harry Bornemann displayed:
That is a very interesting point you make there Harry.
(Unfortunately spelling error on the site button, BTW)
[Edited at 2007-08-21 14:42]
| | | | Selcuk Akyuz
Türkiye
Local time: 23:51
English to Turkish
+ ...
From the Freelancers Directory
SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certification:
n/a
2006 - Certified
2007 - Getting started
2007 - Intermediate
2007 - Advanced (Certified)
Is it a joke? Do you plan to add 2008, 2009 versions as well.
This is ridiculous.
Many agencies even don't know the difference between Trados and SDLX or any CAT tool. Many agencies post interpretation jobs and ask for Trados. Many... See more From the Freelancers Directory
SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certification:
n/a
2006 - Certified
2007 - Getting started
2007 - Intermediate
2007 - Advanced (Certified)
Is it a joke? Do you plan to add 2008, 2009 versions as well.
This is ridiculous.
Many agencies even don't know the difference between Trados and SDLX or any CAT tool. Many agencies post interpretation jobs and ask for Trados. Many agencies ask translation of a handwritten (image) document but with Trados. And we talk about the so-called Trados certification here!
As a member of Proz.com I don't want it displayed or asked in the Freelancers Directory. And I know I am not alone here. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Do you think Proz should add Trados certification as translators search criteria? | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
