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die Wandung zur Außenwandung .... in this sentence
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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Euromuffel

English translation:

Euro-skeptics/Euro-sceptics/Eurosceptics/Euroskeptics

Added to glossary by Eszter Bokor
Nov 20, 2013 16:41
10 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

Euromuffel

German to English Bus/Financial Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
Schlagzeile in einer Zeitung: Deutsche sind keine „Euro-Muffel“
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Euro-skeptics/Euro-sceptics/Eurosceptics/Euroskeptics
3 +2 Euro fatigue
3 +1 Europetulant
3 Euro-grouches
2 +1 Euro-refuseniks
3 a-okay with euro
1 Euro-phobic
Change log

Nov 21, 2013 08:14: Steffen Walter changed "Field" from "Other" to "Bus/Financial" , "Field (specific)" from "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters" to "Idioms / Maxims / Sayings"

Discussion

Lancashireman Nov 27, 2013:
Asker Will you be closing the question this time or leaving it to the robot after 14 days have passed? We would all be fascinated to discover what you decided and to see the 'most helpful' answer acknowledged.
Eleanore Strauss Nov 21, 2013:
@Yorkshireman To some extent... in this context... kind of like my 'grouch'... more generally, it's someone who is just not a morning person.. and that may take on different forms. I, for example, get up early and work efficiently, if not yet as creative, but I need peace and quiet and cannot abide the active, cheery talkative types at that time of day. There you have it.. true confessions.
Yorkshireman Nov 21, 2013:
Hi Elli I reckon the usual description of the "Morgenmuffel" is "someone who got out of bed on the wrong side"
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 21, 2013:
@ElliCom Shall we define Euromuffel-Muffel?
Eleanore Strauss Nov 21, 2013:
Morgenmuffel...don't I know it Actually, Ramey, the Euromuffel has the same disposition as the Morgenmuffel. And I am now turning into an Euromuffel-Muffel (Andrew, since I'm using German terminology the hyphen is permissible)... no rest for the weary. Have a great continuing conversation.
Yorkshireman Nov 21, 2013:
Partymuffel People who always look for an excuse not to go - dislike parties, dislike being in a crowd, dislike too much alcohol and the people who drink it all, dislikes the host’s cooking and a thousand other things - generally love it and have a great time when they go to the party after all.

A party pooper is more like a gatecrasher.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 21, 2013:
Partymuffel has a definite element of fear/timidity in it, whereas Morgenmuffel is simply a crabby morning disposition, which is not a sleepyhead.
Party pooper is definitely not a Partymuffel.
Kirsten Bodart Nov 21, 2013:
Yes I don't think it is the Partymuffel's first intention to actually wreck the party if he/she ever happens to be at one. Maybe others will consider him/her a party pooper because they don't like anyone who doesn't like parties, but that's another story.
Horst Huber (X) Nov 21, 2013:
Another thought: The websites tell me that "party pooper" is an equivalent for "Partymuffel", but I would think a party pooper is someone who goes to a party and wrecks it for others, but a "Partymuffel" is one who never even goes to one.
Bernhard Sulzer Nov 21, 2013:
@Andrew thanks for the reminder. :)
Yorkshireman Nov 21, 2013:
G'day Andrew Ey up lad, grand to see tha's not 'n advisory muffel :-)

Wi'll mebbe orl gerrit reet bi't tahm it's ovver.
Lancashireman Nov 21, 2013:
Bending EN to DE rules 1) No capital letters for common nouns, including currencies
2) No hyphens to form compound noun neologisms

Thank you for treating English as a separate language with its own spelling and punctuation conventions.
Yorkshireman Nov 21, 2013:
Indifference Silly me - wanted to post this here, not in my answer:

How about something like

"Germans are not as indifferent to the euro (and Europe) as they seem"

A bit long, but I think it expresses the idea in a nutshell.
Kirsten Bodart Nov 21, 2013:
Muffel and Mouflon I thought that was where 'muffel' came from when I first saw them both on Wikipedia yesterday, but apparently etymology suggests differently. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muffel_(Person) As it's got something to do with 'chewing with a full mouth', they may both be coming from the same root, though.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 21, 2013:
Hi Horst thought of that one, too, being a Dr Seuss fan.
Horst Huber (X) Nov 21, 2013:
Well, if there is no such epithet as "euro grinch", there should be.
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
Muffel I seem to remember having read somewhere that Muffel/muffelig is a description of a person or trait that is derived from the behaviour and character of mountain sheep - intractable and stubborn (störrisch/widerspenstig).

As all you hundreds of hunters out there know, Mouflon sheep are "Muffelwild".
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
@Kphred Patents scare me to death! Just like legal and medical - wouldn't touch them without good insurance cover :-)
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
Yorkshireman: you should look at patents sometime! The words used therein should be patented.
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
@Eszter The context takes us right back to square one (can't help but smile!)

The guy has both Euro and euro in there.

@Kphred - then you must hate translating marketing copy - the generation of smokescreens built of non-existent terminology or fantasy expressions to lull the client into thinking the agency knows what it's talking about :-)
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
The next article will claim that Germans don't complain (moan) about being accused of moaning about the euro.
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
Well, that should certainly be a relief to many concerned individuals.
Eszter Bokor (asker) Nov 20, 2013:
Let me give you a bit more context: Von der häufig kolportierten generellen Europa- bzw. Euro-Skepsis kann in Deutschland unter dem Strich keine Rede sein. Das gilt sowohl für die Bevölkerung allgemein als auch für die Unternehmen. Dieses Fazit zieht Prof. Manfred Güllner aus unterschiedlichen Umfragen. ... räumte der Gründer und Geschäftsführer des Berliner forsa-Institutes außerdem mit einer weiteren Vermutung auf.
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
Actually, I like "moaner" as the adjective, I just don't like the structure "Euro-Moaner." I have a certain aversion to the idea that words can just be strung together to clarify some obscure point, in lieu of using actual grammar.
Eszter Bokor (asker) Nov 20, 2013:
Oh dear, what have I started... ;-) I like Europhobe a lot, but it's still interesting to see what else is coming in. You're right, there are many words like curmudgeon, bellyacher, etc. I was looking for an expression though that is frequently used in this specific context (if there is any).
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
Kphred Now why didn't I think of that :-) Germans are no longer Germans Great idea! Will make them much more popular around the world!

"There goes another euro-grump, gripe, grouch" - how come you pick on moaner? The Germans are famous for moaning about everything.
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
try putting it in a sentence: There goes another euro-moaner. Sounds stupid. How about translating it to "Germans are not Germans"
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 20, 2013:
No such German as an euro-grump.
Eleanore Strauss Nov 20, 2013:
@Yorkshireman Hey, your first suggestion was pretty spot-on.. moaners is more limiting... just my 2 cents..
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
Euro-?? Does it really make sense to call someone a "Euro-gripe" or "Euro-moaner?" Just because this combination works in German, doesn't mean it works in English. It would make more sense to paraphrase, and say "Germans aren't cry babies when it comes to the Euro" or something along those lines.
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
How about... euro-moaners
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
Deutsche sind Euro-Muffel http://idw-online.de/pages/en/news6712 and http://www.abendblatt.de/wirtschaft/article890639/Deutsche-a... are links to a couple of articles that clearly indicate this refers to the currency. In case anyone still cares.
Eleanore Strauss Nov 20, 2013:
@Ramey and Kirsten Agreed! But this isn't supposed to be a Doktorarbeit...curmudgeon is a nice one... though maybe a bit over the top for a headline... sourpuss was in my response... hey maybe gripes would also do the trick!
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
@Ramey Flodder - Love it! But it won't get any points :-)
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 20, 2013:
Grouch curmudgeon, bellyacher, crosspatch, grump, gripe, carp, faultfinder, growler, grumbler, nag,grouser, whiner, sourpuss, sorehead....
Kirsten Bodart Nov 20, 2013:
The term Muffel suggests either grumpiness or disinterestedness, as in 'Modemuffel' or 'Sexmuffel' (according to Duden). Also incompetence, as a result of disinterestedness or indifference, I expect. But I think in the case of 'Euromuffel' it suggests that the Germans are not indifferent to the euro or something, i.e. that they really want to keep it, although they moan about it.
Maybe 'grouches' isn't a bad idea, or synonyms, anyone?
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 20, 2013:
euro-Flodders hihihihihi
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
@Ramey OK - Not all Germans are "grumpy, close-mouthed, sullen, cantankerous, surly, disgruntled, peevish" about the euro.

This means that the majority is no longer struck down with nostalgia about having lost the D-Mark.
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
@Andrew Indeed it does - I remember it being exactly the same in the UK when the pound went decimal. Do you remember "Decimal Day"? (15 February 1971).

Maybe you could say that Germans are not euro-luddites (or should it be euro-Luddites, Euro-Luddites?) :-)
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 20, 2013:
Yorkshireman I was referring to DM-nostalgics.

Morgenmuffel: grumpy, close-mouthed, sullen, cantankerous, surly, disgruntled, peevish...........
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
@Ramey The question was/is what is an "Euromuffel"?
I'm sure you could easily put three letters in front of it if you need it in a sentence. You can have these, I don't need them at the moment, and there are plenty more in my keyboard:-)

n o t
Lancashireman Nov 20, 2013:
By analogy with Sprachmuffel ... suggests incompetence, lack of skill in handling the currency, e.g. not being able to work out what something is worth in 'old money'.
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
Euro v. euro Euro-sceptic sceptical about the EU
euro-sceptic sceptical about the currency

D-Mark (DM) is, AFAIK, always capitalised and also used in US and UK articles.
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 20, 2013:
True, Sir Andrew missed that beat. Although it is a title, it could be capitalized in that context
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 20, 2013:
Okay, let's say it's about the currency. 'Muffel' could be inferring timidity as well as cantankerousness. I don't see how we can translate the title without SOME idea of what the author is saying.

@Yorkshireman - But the title says Germans are not Euro-averse
Kphred Nov 20, 2013:
Europhobes I did not notice this in the discussion, but for what its worth, it seems much more likely, given the present political climate, that this refers to the currency. The seem to enjoy Europe, at least as a vacation destination.
Lancashireman Nov 20, 2013:
Currencies are not capitalised in EN the dollar, the pound, the yen, the euro. (Very easy to fall into German punctuation and spelling conventions when you work with the language all day.)
Yorkshireman Nov 20, 2013:
D-Mark The Germans tend to moan more about having lost the D-Mark than having the euro - "D-Mark Nostalgiker" is a common expression in the media.
Eleanore Strauss Nov 20, 2013:
Euro or Europe @Ramey I actually referred to that in my answer. But if you use Euro-grouch or Euro-skeptic, that takes care of that, in the same way the German headline does it... and reflects the brevity of such np headlines... :)
Alexandra Reuer Nov 20, 2013:
@ philgoddard I also think Euro as currency is probably more likely. "Germans are down with the Euro" :-P...
philgoddard Nov 20, 2013:
Ramey I agree. I can't find the article online, but all the hits I looked at related to the currency.
Alexandra Reuer Nov 20, 2013:
Are we talking about Europe or the Euro as a currency? If the former, how about "Europhobes"?
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 20, 2013:
Hello Eszter Which slant does the article take? Euro as in the currency? Euro as in the continent? Are they (not) grouchy? grumpy? apprehesive? I always translate titles after I have read the article.

Proposed translations

+1
6 mins
Selected

Euro-skeptics/Euro-sceptics/Eurosceptics/Euroskeptics

People who do not want the powers of the EU to increase.

Pick out the spelling you prefer.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2013-11-20 16:49:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-14/why-euro-ske...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-12/euro-skeptics-in-fi...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/00da55ca-2f3c-11e3-8cb2-00144feab7...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2013-11-20 16:56:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If it's about money

D-Mark nostalgists

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2013-11-20 16:59:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Reference for D-Mark Nostalgiker (D-Mark nostalgists)

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/angst-vor-euro-cra...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2013-11-21 10:52:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

How about something like

"Germans are not as indifferent to the euro as they seem"
Reference:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Euro-skeptic

Peer comment(s):
agree Heather McCrae : Euro-sceptic, goes with the Euro-scepticism in the text
16 hrs
neutral Kirsten Bodart : I know this is a term used in this context, but it doesn't really sum up the kind of passive disinterest that Muffel expresses. Scepticism is more active, IMO. Also the same word cropping up one line below that is too much repetition style-wise for me.
17 hrs
I think "indifference" sums it up rather well - or, as we say in Yorkshire, "ah doan't gi a toss abaht it""
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
6 mins

Euro-grouches

There are many ways to express the term "Muffel"... grouches or sourpusses (very colloquial and very American)... you could also work around the term by saying Germans are not turned off by Europe (i.e. the rest of Europe). Unless this refers to the currency, which would then be "turned off by the Euro"
Example sentence:

The Germans are not Euro-grouches

Something went wrong...
19 mins

Euro-phobic

In the context, it might make sense to freely translate the headline as "Germans are not Euro-phobic" even though this is a bit of a stretch, but it coincides nicely with all of the other phobias they claim to be free of.
Note from asker:
I relly like that! Do you think I could use it as a noun, Europhobe? (Just like homophobe?)
Peer comment(s):
neutral Ramey Rieger (X) : excellent commentary!!!
59 mins
neutral Michael Martin, MA : Much to be criticized about German conduct in Europe but (not) calling it Euro-phobic would definitely be more than what Muffel connotes. Germans rail about (smaller) member states or European bureaucracy but it doesn't reach the level of Euro bashing.
3 hrs
HaHa, Good one. Since the article in question intends to deny that Germans complain about the Euro, it would make sense to claim that they are not euro-phobes, to eliminate the possibility of reading it to mean that they are not merely complaining a lot.
Something went wrong...
+2
2 hrs

Euro fatigue

This is a headline, right? That means we have to consider what sounds good as a headline, not just look at the isolated term..

Germans betraying (showing) no signs of Euro fatigue

(not suffering from euro fatigue)

Peer comment(s):
agree Johanna Timm, PhD : Nice - and a great suggestion for the headline.
18 mins
Thanks, Johanna!
neutral Yorkshireman : Fatigue ? Do you both really mean being tired of the euro/Europe or being exhausted by the one or the other? @Bernhard, an understandable typo - Muffler and exhaust ;-)
3 hrs
Yep. The term is widely used. Describes exactly what being a “Muffler” is all about – showing exhausted reluctance but stopping short of outright rejection.
neutral Bernhard Sulzer : "no fatigue" is a bit different from "being bothered by it" IMO / - "no fatigue" is a different idea.
4 hrs
Everybody knows "fatigue" is not a precise translation for Muffel. That's not the point. Unlike other commenters, I rarely do "literal" translations for newspaper headlines. They tend not to be very effective. My clients would not have hired me if I did.
agree Kirsten Bodart : I think that's a great idea! There are all kinds of fatigue that mean no longer being interested.
14 hrs
Thanks, Kirsten.
neutral Lancashireman : No sign of fatigue = Their enthusiasm is undiminished. Overstating the case, I think.
15 hrs
You can't always mechanically construe the flipside of a statement and claim the result was logically implied by the first statement. That works with math but only occasionally with language.
neutral Eleanore Strauss : Fatigue could result from years of being "Muffel". The slight humor in the German HL is gone.
18 hrs
There wasn't much humor left in that expression to begin with..
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

Europetulant

Got them both!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yorkshireman : Hard to remain neutral, but it's the only choice unless they extend the selection to include outrageously witty.
1 hr
agree Eleanore Strauss : This is nice! not entirely sure how it would read in a headline
16 hrs
I posted it mainly for the lovely duality, Elli, and because the reader just has to look twice. I still like 'No such thing as a Europetulant German' or Europetulant? No the Germans, or 'Europetulance is not German'.
Something went wrong...
+1
16 hrs

Euro-refuseniks

just an idea :)
Peer comment(s):
agree Lancashireman : Hi Heather. One of two that I was mulling over (along with 'euro deniers'). But why the capital letter for the currency and why the German hyphen? // euro refuseniks (space, no hyphen). It's the currency, like dollar, yen, pound etc - no capital letter.
53 mins
well, do they mean the Euro as in money or Europe? I think Euro-refuseniks meets both meanings, eurorefuseniks is a bit difficult to read :)
Something went wrong...
20 hrs
German term (edited): keine Euromuffel

a-okay with euro

Headline:

You Can Say "Euro" Before Breakfast in Germany
Germans A-Okay With Euro
Germans Not Grumbling About Euro (Euro Currency)

more suggestions below


keeping in mind that "Muffel" is humorous.

It means the Germans find nothing wrong with the euro (currency) = they're not grumpy about it, not griping about it, etc., not even before breakfast, the most important meal of the day for Germans. (well that's great :-))

I suggest to keep the word "euro" separate if you want to follow the German meaning as in the currency.
"Euro Grumblers" would be a possibility but not as clear to everyone.
It depends on the article:

Other headline suggestions:


The Germans: Euro Grumblers They Are Not (They're Not)
Germans Not Bothered By Euro (Euro Currency)
Germans Don't Mind/Hate Their Euro (Euro Currency)

You Can Talk to Germans About the Euro Before Breakfast/in the Morning

- the meanings "EU/Europe" are IMO not included in the German headline. You can adjust if necessary.
The English word "euro" correctly denotes the currency* as well but one finds "euro" also used to mean "European Union" although not often in that sense:

As European Union - euro-grumblers
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/nov...
Addressing a pre-summit Washington forum organised by the EU Institute for Security Studies, Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, Europe director on Obama's national security council, said the Euro-grumblers and whingers had got it all wrong. "Re-engaging with our European allies is a top priority for the Obama administration. We have no ambivalence about the emerging role of the [post-Lisbon treaty] European Union. It is not a rival but a partner," she said.

*
http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Spain-Crisis-euro-bank/2...
Spain: Euro Partners' Pledges Sufficient to Fix Banks



http://de.thefreedictionary.com/Muffel
Mụf·fel der <Muffels, Muffel>
1. (umg. abwert.) ein mürrischer Mensch Der Taxifahrer war ein Muffel, er hat kaum mit mir geredet.
mufflig
2. ein Wildschaf


http://de.thefreedictionary.com/Muffel
TheFreeDictionary.com Deutsches Wörterbuch. © 2009 Farlex, Inc. and partners.
Mụf•fel der; -s, -; gespr pej; jemand, der unfreundlich ist und oft schlechte Laune hat
|| -K: Morgenmuffel
|| hierzu mụf•fe•lig, mụff•lig Adj

TheFreeDictionary.com Großwörterbuch Deutsch als Fremdsprache. © 2009 Farlex, Inc. and partners.

NB: Nod to Andrew: "euro" should be in small caps except wherever caps are necessary (headline, title) and no hyphen when combining it with one other word, yes.
Something went wrong...
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