German term
Mitarbeiter des Bundesamtes für Migration und Flüchtlinge
| 4 +7 | employee of the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees |
Susanne Rindlisbacher
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| 4 +7 | employee of the Federal Office of Migration and Refugees |
philgoddard
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Sep 4, 2014 21:49: Steffen Walter changed "Field (specific)" from "Law (general)" to "Government / Politics"
Sep 5, 2014 06:12: BrigitteHilgner changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
Non-PRO (3): philgoddard, Sebastian Witte, BrigitteHilgner
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Proposed translations
Portugal
Quality and Dedication
Native in: German 
Works in: English to German, Portuguese to German, German, and 1 more.
employee of the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees
| agree |
Björn Vrooman
: Yes, search takes ten seconds...Since this is an established term, even changing the preposition (whether one likes it or not) is not a good idea.
39 mins
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Danke, Björn
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
46 mins
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Danke, AllegroTrans
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| neutral |
philgoddard
: If you'd posted my answer, I'd have agreed with you and said 'actually they usually translate it as "for"'. But there we go...
50 mins
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Das hatte ich ursprünglich auch vor ;-)
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| agree |
David Hollywood
: I think this is the way to go although "of" would also have been my natural reaction
2 hrs
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Danke, David
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| agree |
BrigitteHilgner
: It may be bad English, but this is the term which the BAMF uses and therefore I would stick to it.
8 hrs
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Danke, Brigitte
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| agree |
Ramey Rieger (X)
10 hrs
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Danke, Ramey
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| agree |
Cilian O'Tuama
: if that's what they officially call themselves, then definite agree from me
3 days 2 hrs
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Danke, Cilian
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| agree |
Rebecca Garber
3 days 15 hrs
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Danke, Rebecca
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United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
employee of the Federal Office of Migration and Refugees
| agree |
Cristina Moldovan do Amaral
0 min
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| agree |
Lancashireman
: Naming bodies in English is an ENS prerogative. 'For' only makes sense in the context of promotion, e.g. Department for Education.
1 hr
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| agree |
Cilian O'Tuama
: Would instinctively prefer this one, is more neutral. IMO "for" implies acting in their interest.
2 hrs
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| agree |
writeaway
: as a rule, prepositions are often a problem when translating into a foreign language. For NES, it's of
3 hrs
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| agree |
David Hollywood
: going to agree with you too Phil as your suggestion would also work and is totally legit but it seems "for" has taken hold here
3 hrs
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| agree |
Donald Jacobson
5 hrs
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| agree |
Ramey Rieger (X)
11 hrs
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Discussion
But: The purpose of "Federal" was not to make it a contrasting name to East Germany, which was actually called the German Democratic Republic (GDR). "Democratic" is not the opposite of "Federal".
That said, I do favor your way of looking at the issue. I don't disagree with you and I would have liked them to take a closer look at the translation first.
Just because I know German stubborness (especially in bureaucratic circles) and because the agency even has the preposition "for" in its logo, I see little chance they'll change something here - unless you can assure me you have a crowd of native speakers running in their doors at the moment.
Overall, the purpose of the explanations given is to help the asker decide whether they are good enough to warrant the use of "for" and "Federal" here. If the asker thinks they aren't: Fine with me, take Phil's suggestion.
Have a good night!
I agree that Federal is mostly associated with the United States. I don't quite see how that invalidates the use of Federal regarding Germany.
A) The official name is still Bundesrepublik Deutschland. It's still a system with a federal government and state governments (much like the US) - in contrast to, e.g., France and the UK (may be debatable).
B) I quote:
"Eine weitgehende Vorgabe der Siegermächte war die Auflösung Preußens, womit zwar eine extreme Asymmetrie beseitigt wurde, zugleich aber überwiegend "künstliche" neue Länder geschaffen wurden, die zudem an der Aufteilung in Besatzungszonen orientiert waren. Von den neugeschaffenen westdeutschen Bundesländern konnten sich nur Bay. und die beiden Hansestädte HH und HB auf gewachsene Staatstraditionen stützen[...]"
http://www.bpb.de/nachschlagen/lexika/handwoerterbuch-politi...
Now, East Germany didn't have "federal states" from 1952 on:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezirk_(DDR)
Department for Work and Pensions
Department of Health
Ministry of Defence
I don't know how you can boil it down to for=promotion of, or are you not actively promoting the health, as well as the defensive capabilities of the country? And how are you promoting pensions?
Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not advocating changes in prepositions; I am merely asking whether there is another way to differentiate between both uses.
I think Germans naturally assume it must be "for" not just because of the German "für" as a word but also due to the fact that "für" is short for "zuständig für" - which is responsible for (and not of) in English. That is the only explanation I can come up with to explain "Migration" here. If the German "für" was a simple "for", then I don't see the difference to English usage as in your example and it would simply sound awkward, even in German.
One of the first things you'll see on their pages is:
"If you gained your professional qualifications outside Germany and would like to use it in the German labour market then the Federal Office will be happy to advise you."
http://www.bamf.de/EN/Startseite/startseite-node.html
In fact, that sounds as if they encourage immigration. I'm less happy about the "migration" then (because which country encourages emigration?).
The of/for issue is a bit more complex than it may seem, e.g.,
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/181093/use-of-or-...
I quote: "For instance, Canada currently has a Minister of Foreign Affairs, but it used to have a Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs doing the same job."
And: "The UK has a Department for Transport; the US has a Department of Transportation."
The sentence sounds as if taken from a journalistic text. This makes it an SEO issue.
Do you remember "Jugendwohlfahrt"? I opted for a term that is in use by BrE or AmE speakers because
1) I could show that "youth" was totally inappropriate (you and the asker agreed as well).
2) the Austrian government had no official translation.
3) I recommended including the Austrian word in parentheses the first time it is mentioned in the text.
This situation is different - at least, concerning 2+3. There is an official term and the text is most likely no scientific study.
Coming back to SEO, I'd like to give you an example:
Let's say that a small country has an agency you would translate as Office for the Preservation of Wildlife. But they call it "Ministry of Porcupines". You may think it sounds really ridiculous - but it gets you a lot of Google hits, whereas your solution is the only one of its kind. Now, that means
a) nobody searching for the ministry will see your article.
b) nobody trying to find the ministry based on your translation will ever get there.
As sad as it may be, that's how it works.
b) ‘For’ implies ‘promotion of’. If Fed Rep is actively encouraging immigration, the title is apt.
c) What purpose has been served by ‘Federal’ since West Germany absorbed East Germany in 1990? The prefix that means most to English-speaking readers is ‘German…’. The reason being that most English speakers automatically associate 'Federal' with the United States (Federal Bureau of xyz)