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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Celles-ci rappelleront les délais de paiement applicables

English translation:

These will stipulate the applicable payment terms

Added to glossary by Mark Nathan
Feb 24, 2013 14:32
12 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term

Celles-ci rappelleront les délais de paiement applicables

French to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general) in a contract
Les factures seront, selon le cas, libellées à l’attention de chacune des sociétés du XXXX concernées et adressées directement par le Fournisseur aux XXXXXX concernées dans les conditions fixées entre ces derniers.
Celles-ci rappelleront les délais de paiement applicables, convenus conformément à l’article 3.5.

In terms of the context the phrase comes from a legal contract. The word I am having particular trouble with here is the use of rappeler used in this context. I am aware it would be something like 'mention the payment deadlines', however as I'm sure you know legal traslations demand exactitude. I am aware that for experienced legal translators this may seem absurdly simple, however your help is much appreciated. I have experience of legal translation and am doing this professionally, however as an apprentice legal translator sometimes simple things trip me up. Thanks.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 These will stipulate the applicable payment schedules
3 +2 These will recapitulate the applicable payment terms
4 +1 These/Invoices shall specify the applicable time limits for payment
3 Invoices shall bear the terms of payment
Change log

Feb 24, 2013 19:38: writeaway changed "Field" from "Law/Patents" to "Bus/Financial" , "Field (specific)" from "Law: Contract(s)" to "Business/Commerce (general)" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "in a contract"

Feb 28, 2013 15:39: Mark Nathan Created KOG entry

Discussion

Tony M Feb 24, 2013:
@ Mark Yes, that seems a good solution, and even if 'terms' CAN be interpreted with a broader sense, I don't think that will actually do any harm here anyway.
Mark Nathan Feb 24, 2013:
@Tony Following on from my response to your comment below, since I cannot think of an appropriate way of mentioning "the period within which bills must be paid by", perhaps a combination of ours answers, "stipulate the applicable payment terms" would be the best option.
Tony M Feb 24, 2013:
@ Mark Yes, indeed; BUT in the very specific field of invoicing, 'payment terms' (even though it CAN include other things too) does very often refer specifically to the timescale of the payments, as in the '30 days nett monthly' I mentioned below. This is the sort of thing one finds consistently stated on invoices, whereas the more comprehensive 'modalités de règlement' are more likely to be found in the prior sales agreement between the two parties.

So I insist that in this specific, detailed context, 'terms' is adequate and the conventional term used in commercial EN.
Mark Nathan Feb 24, 2013:
either way whether "these" is the "factures" or the "conditions", "délais" refers to the period within which bills should be paid, which, as Nikki says, is just one aspect of the payment terms (other aspects would be the method of making payment, the currency, interest rate applied in the event of late payment etc.)
James Greenfield (asker) Feb 24, 2013:
I agree with you Tony, here these would refer to 'factures'. Also I believe payment terms is the correct translation

Proposed translations

+3
6 mins
Selected

These will stipulate the applicable payment schedules

"These" being the "conditions".
Peer comment(s):
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : 1. "Délais" meaning schedules (in the sense of payment deadlines). 2. "Celles-ci" referring to "conditions", including terms of payment for example and more generally the contractual conditions.
1 hr
Yes, thanks Nikki
agree GILLES MEUNIER
1 hr
thanks
agree MatthewLaSon : Same to you. I like your new solution. I was thinking that "schedules" was similar to "terms of payment."
2 hrs
Hey Matthew, nice to hear from you.
neutral Tony M : I don't think one can really use 'schedules' here (and I've certainly never seen it in an equivalment EN commercial context), since that tends to mean 'planning' and could suggest some kind of installment payment scheme. / Yes, agree
5 hrs
Hi Tony, I agree, "schedules" is probably not quite right here - maybe "periods" ? ... but I think one should try to communicate the idea of time in "délais" with something more specific than just "terms"
neutral papier : A schedule is not the same as a deadline. Agree with Tony M.
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
18 mins

These will recapitulate the applicable payment terms

I actually believe that 'celles-ci' refers back to 'les factures' — it would be normal for the payment terms to be spelled out afresh on each invoice. My main reason for not believing that 'celles-ci' refers to 'conditions' is that the latter term is really part of a subordinate clause, which could be left out without materially affecting the meaning of the first sentence; but leaving 'celles-ci' only 'les factures' to refer back to.

In terms of 'délais' here, we are almost certainly referring to payment terms (like '30 days nett' etc.) — hopefully, the rest of your context may clarify both these points.

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Note added at 19 mins (2013-02-24 14:51:47 GMT)
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'rappeler' usually retains some notion of the root meaning 'remind', even though ultimately that may or may not have actual translation value.

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Note added at 20 mins (2013-02-24 14:52:10 GMT)
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You might, of course, just say 'restate'...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-02-24 17:31:54 GMT)
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If you wish to get further away from the idea of 're-state', then you could always say 'will set out' or 'will state', as Nikki suggests; sometimes even 'list', though I think that is less applicable here. But you do often see 'rappeler dans un liste'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2013-02-24 20:28:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, typing too fast: 'UNE liste', of course!

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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-02-24 20:51:29 GMT)
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If, as both Phil and I believe, 'celles-ci' does indeed refer back to 'les factures', then it might be as well to remove the ambiguity by putting something like "Each invoice will repeat/recapitulate/(re-)state/set out etc. ..."
Peer comment(s):
neutral GILLES MEUNIER : Rappeler ne veut pas dire récapituler en français....récapituler = résumer
1 hr
Yes, but we need to avoid being so very literal, we need to get to the sense behind the words. And consider how equivalent ideas are expressed in EN, without referring back to the way they are expressed in FR.
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : "Rappeler" does have the idea of reminding, thus recapitulating. Hwvr, it is also used for state, set out etc. "Délais" (d/lines) are part of p/ment terms, not the other way round.//Terms incl amount, int etc. I used d/lines euphemistically.
1 hr
Nikki, specifically when talking about the payment of invoices, that's PRECISELY what 'terms' means (as in the term of a loan, not as in Terms & Conditions). We do not talk about 'deadlines' for paying invoices.
agree philgoddard : I agree with all your points except that, as you say, I think "celles-ci" refers to the invoices, so "these" doesn't work as a translation.
5 hrs
Thanks, Phil! I don't really see why not: "Invoices will be... These will..." — though I suppose 'They' might work better? 'These' is a bit of a French-ism ;-)
agree papier : I would just change the verb and use "restate". And agree with Philgoddard and write "They" referring to the invoices.
6 hrs
Thanks, helena! Yes, I think those are both valid improvements.
Something went wrong...
10 hrs

Invoices shall bear the terms of payment

Hello,

My try (mainly with the word "rappelleront"). I don't like "restate", or anything similar to that, even though that is the literal meaning. But what do we naturally say in English in this sort of context? Là est la question.

Each invoice shall bear the terms contained in the original order and no change from the original terms of sale shall be made without A/R Funding's prior written ..

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1487659/0001255294120...


I hope this helps.



I hope this helps.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2013-02-25 00:48:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Bear" implies that there is a sense of reminding from the original. See what I mean?
Something went wrong...
+1
23 hrs

These/Invoices shall specify the applicable time limits for payment

I don't think it would be accurate to translate "délais" as "terms".

http://www.euroglas.com/en/footer-navigation-engl/termscondi...
"(3) The Purchaser shall be entitled to set off against our claims only if the ..... If the change turns out to be impossible, the Seller shall deliver to the Buyer the ... the time limits for payment of the amounts due specified on following invoices ... "

www.audaxsecurity.co.uk/terms.html
"Time shall be of the essence, as regards the time limits for payment. "

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2013-02-25 14:14:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Shall" is safer than "will" in this context as it instructs that it shall be the case, rather than trusting that it will.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Need to be careful, though, as the simple future tense in FR often opposes the prescriptive use of 'shall' in EN (usually rendred by the simple present in FR). / I did mean specifically in a legal context :-(
20 mins
Thanks Tony. Yes, in general, but my comment is specific to this legal context.
Something went wrong...
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