Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
originaire de
English translation:
registered place of origin: [Lausanne & Sumiswald]
- The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2011-10-27 14:54:09 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
French term
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
originaire de
xxx, originaire de Lausanne VD et Sumiswald BE
lieu et date de naissance: Lausanne [date]
The child was born in Lausanne, so I cannot say born at Lausanne and Sumiswald, and "native of" would seem equally clumsy.
The child's father has the same details: originaire de Lausanne VD et Sumiswald BE
whilst for the mother: originaire d'Italie
How can this be sensibly translated without a seeming contradiction? - I have never heard of a birth record saying that a person is from 2 different towns!
| 5 +2 | registered origin: [Lausanne & Sumiswald] |
Melissa McMahon
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Nov 7, 2021 13:26: AllegroTrans Created KOG entry
Jan 6, 2022 16:13: Peter Shortall changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"
PRO (3): Trudy Peters, Yvonne Gallagher, Peter Shortall
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Proposed translations
registered origin: [Lausanne & Sumiswald]
(The mother's "originaire d'Italie" by contrast is just the normal "from".)
See Wikipedia entry on Swiss nationality:
"Each Swiss is a citizen of his place or community of origin, his canton of origin and the Confederation, in this order: a Swiss citizen is defined as someone who has the citizenship of a Swiss municipality (art. 37 of the Swiss Federal Constitution). He is entered in the family register of his place of origin. ***The place of origin is the place where the family (usually the father) comes from. It is not to be confused with the place of birth. The place of origin can be the same as the place of birth, but this is not necessarily the case.***"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_nationality_law
What adds an additional layer of complexity here is that Lausanne and Sumiswald are two different municipalities/cantons. This might be due to a development whereby you can register with the community of origin of both your father and mother - just a guess. In any case, it's a civil notion different to the "natural" fact of where you were born.
(nb. I wouldn't call this a non-pro question)
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Note added at 7 hrs (2011-10-23 22:21:50 GMT)
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Reading the discussion more closely, you say that the father is also "originaire de" Lausanne & Sumiswald, which means his dual origin is just being transferred to his son.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2011-10-23 22:41:41 GMT)
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(PS: Since this is a peculiarly Swiss notion, there may be different ways you would want to put it in English, mine is just a suggestion - ie the 100% certainty is about what this means, not that there's only one way to translate it.)
| Very helpful, thanks very much! |
| agree |
B D Finch
: It may be peculiarly Swiss, but it does make sense to be associated with the place one lived in as a child, rather than Clapham Junction, just because one's mother was in a train that got delayed there. However, "registered place of origin".
13 hrs
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Yes, good suggestion, thanks. I should clarify that I didn't mean to suggest the convention was "peculiar", just "peculiar to...".
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| agree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
1 day 15 hrs
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Discussion
I think the only option is "from"
Suggestion :
"xxx, FROM Lausanne VD and Sumiswald BE
place and date of birth : Lausanne [date]"
I suspect it means that the birth has been registered in both places, one being the actual birth place and the other perhaps the parents domicile. That's me repeating myself and who cares anyway as your next problem is the translation of "reçu". The idea will have to make sense as a whole. Grr, I hate little words like this, often tricky!!!
http://www.lausanne.ch/view.asp?DocId=20939
Le livret ou certificat de famille sert à prouver l'état de famille (liens familiaux des membres de la famille, état civil des parents) de son ou sa titulaire à l'égard de certaines autorités (p.ex. le contrôle des habitants ou les autorités de l'état civil). Il est remis aux époux ou aux personnes seules lorsqu'ils fondent une famille (lors de la naissance ou de l'adoption d'un enfant).
Ce document peut être obtenu auprès de l'Office d'état civil de la commune d'origine.
https://www.sec-vd.ch/etatcivil/index.php#haut
https://www.pom.be.ch/pom/fr/index/zivilstand-pass-id/zivils...
Reckon you need a Swiss national to chip in on this one!
reçue dans les droits de cité de Lausanne VD et Sumiswald BE
I have no other "clues"
Perhaps the child was born in Lausanne and parental domicile at that time was Sumiswald?
My children were born in Vannes but at the time I was living in a little village on the coast. If I need a borth certificate, then Vannes is given as the palce of birth. However, the Livret de Famille is drawn up by the Town Hall of the commune where I lived at the time.
My experience realtes to France, but it may be a starter.