Oct 10, 2007 21:59
17 yrs ago
German term
Abgegrenztheit
German to English
Social Sciences
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Academic study
context:
"Moderne Gesellschaften weisen zumindest in mancher Hinsicht eine deutlich bestimmte Abgegrenztheit auf."
"Moderne Gesellschaften weisen zumindest in mancher Hinsicht eine deutlich bestimmte Abgegrenztheit auf."
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +3 | Modern societies are in many respects unconnected to one another. |
Jim Tucker (X)
|
| 4 +1 | social exclusion and/or isolation |
Nicholas Krivenko
|
| 4 | Seclusion |
onubad
|
Proposed translations
+3
7 hrs
Selected
Modern societies are in many respects unconnected to one another.
(If you take "eine bestimmte Abgegrenztheit" as "a certain separateness", then the last sentence, with its unconditional and extreme formulation "Es hat praktisch keine vormodernen Gesellschaften gegeben, die ebenso deutlich abgegrenzt waren ...", undercuts the mitigating force of "bestimmt". I'm guessing this wasn't written in one sitting.)
or take "bestimmt" literally (and perhaps less naturally), as an intensifier:
Modern societies are, in many respects at least, distinctly unconnected to one another
Set aside "aufweisen" for a moment and approach the problem by using an adjective instead of the "exhibit ...xyz" construction, which is clumsy in English, albeit usable.
It's bad enough that the author sets a little trap for the EN speaker with "eine bestimmte Abgegrenztheit", since the compendious "clearly distinct" clatters around in the head -
Still, this suggests another type of solution: using two adjectives: "separate and distinct" - a pair that is frequent and natural in English, and absolutely in place here. So another version:
"Modern societies are in many respects separate and distinct"
("zumindest" is also, stylistically speaking, poor English - I have to believe it's poor German as well)
(Not to mention the hyperbole of the idea contained in the last sentence - a provocative formulation - clearly earlier societies were more isolated than modern ones. The author is being provocative, but isn't writing tightly enough to pull it off.)
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Note added at 7 hrs (2007-10-11 05:53:22 GMT)
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The idea is that societies are orented and structured inwardly, rather than outwardly, and that this creates an internal solidarity and self-sufficiency that make interaction with other societies unnecessary - at least on a structural level. There's an argument to be made in this area, if you restrict the topic to *structures* within the state, rather than extending it to almost anything else, like culture or commerce.
or take "bestimmt" literally (and perhaps less naturally), as an intensifier:
Modern societies are, in many respects at least, distinctly unconnected to one another
Set aside "aufweisen" for a moment and approach the problem by using an adjective instead of the "exhibit ...xyz" construction, which is clumsy in English, albeit usable.
It's bad enough that the author sets a little trap for the EN speaker with "eine bestimmte Abgegrenztheit", since the compendious "clearly distinct" clatters around in the head -
Still, this suggests another type of solution: using two adjectives: "separate and distinct" - a pair that is frequent and natural in English, and absolutely in place here. So another version:
"Modern societies are in many respects separate and distinct"
("zumindest" is also, stylistically speaking, poor English - I have to believe it's poor German as well)
(Not to mention the hyperbole of the idea contained in the last sentence - a provocative formulation - clearly earlier societies were more isolated than modern ones. The author is being provocative, but isn't writing tightly enough to pull it off.)
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Note added at 7 hrs (2007-10-11 05:53:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The idea is that societies are orented and structured inwardly, rather than outwardly, and that this creates an internal solidarity and self-sufficiency that make interaction with other societies unnecessary - at least on a structural level. There's an argument to be made in this area, if you restrict the topic to *structures* within the state, rather than extending it to almost anything else, like culture or commerce.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Steffen Walter
: Would "self-contained" fit in here in some place?
58 mins
|
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Thanks Steffen - yes, maybe helped by another adj.
|
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| agree |
Armorel Young
: Very well dissected - did your dog help you?
2 hrs
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Thank you AY - naaaw arf
|
|
| agree |
mill2
: separate and distinct - but Steffen's suggestion is also good
3 hrs
|
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Thanks Millay!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Danke"
8 mins
Seclusion
"Seclusion" passt besser an ...
+1
1 hr
Nicholas Krivenko
Ireland
Ireland
Native in German
&
English
Works in field
Ireland
30 years in translation & interpreting!
Native in: German 
, English
Works in: German to English, English to German, Russian to English, and 5 more.
social exclusion and/or isolation
Es gibt tatsächlich nicht genug Information, um eine bessere Übersetzung zu liefern. Ich kann nur vermuten, daß es sich um Minderheiten (Einwanderer usw.), die nicht in die Gesellschaft integriert werden, handelt. In diesem Fall sprechen wir von "isolation" oder einem "Ghettosyndrom". Wenn Du noch ein paar Sätze hinzufügen könntest, würde man vielleicht die korrekte Antwort liefern können.
Example sentence:
The modern society shows clear signs of social exclusion and isolation."
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Sabine Akabayov, PhD
1 hr
|
| neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: The context makes it clear that the isolation is between societies, or nations - not within them: "Diese Formierung von Nationalstaaten war mit Inklusionen nach innen und Abschließungsprozessen nach außen verbunden. - it's not about minorities
6 hrs
|
Discussion