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sin animo de exhaustividad
elementos propios y suficientes
Jul 7, 2007 16:52
16 yrs ago
108 viewers *
Spanish term

Ciudadano [in this context]

Spanish to English Social Sciences Government / Politics Formal Letter [Venezuela]
I'm translating a series of official letters from Venezuela in which the parties refer to one another as "el Ciudadano Ministro" and "el Ciudadano Presidente", etc.

Would it be correct to translate "Ciudadano" as "Honorable" in this context?

Here's a full sentence from one of the letters:

"En esta misma comunicación, se encuentra Oficio No. XXX del Ciudadano Ministro con las instrucciones específicas sobre el tema."

Thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
5 +8 levae it out
5 +4 Citizen Minister / Citizen President
4 Dignitary
4 Honorable(Hon'ble)

Discussion

bigedsenior Jul 7, 2007:
It's a throwback to the French revolution. Everyone was 'citoyen(ne)', indicating that everyone was equal. The reality - in revolutions some 'citizens' become more equal than others. Soviet 'equality' was
exposed by Milovan Djilas in "The New Class"

Proposed translations

+8
12 mins
Selected

levae it out

Cuando traduzco este tipo de documentos, no incluyo la palabra "ciudadano". En este caso, sólo coloca Minister.

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Note added at 13 mins (2007-07-07 17:06:09 GMT)
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En Venezuela, se usa mucho este tipo de redacción, incluso con gente que no tiene cargos públicos:

El ciudadano Pedro Pérez = Pedro Pérez, Mr. Pedro Pérez

el ciudadano Presidente de la República = the President of teh Republic

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Note added at 15 mins (2007-07-07 17:07:53 GMT)
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Si fuera dirigido al ministro, quizás consideraría colocar un "honorable" o algo similar delante. Sin embargo, en este caso, es un documento redactado en tercera persona.

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Note added at 16 mins (2007-07-07 17:08:23 GMT)
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Perdón por los errores de tipeo. Quise poner "leave it out"

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Note added at 39 mins (2007-07-07 17:31:54 GMT)
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Este tipo de redacción no es nueva. Desde que tengo uso de razón, los documentos en Venezuela usan este tipo de fórmula. Por ejemplo, en los títulos universitarios, se usa "ciudadano bachiller" y en inglés no se coloca ni lo uno, ni lo otro
Peer comment(s):
agree Daniel Burns (X)
17 mins
Gracias
agree Robert Copeland
20 mins
Gracias
agree Patricia Rosas
40 mins
Gracias
agree Lia Fail (X) : I think you have to consider the political tradition ebhind its use, as also that of honourable and similar titles. The most neutral wd be to exclude it as YB suggests
1 hr
Thanks, Lia
agree Silvia Brandon-Pérez
1 hr
Muchas gracias
agree liz askew
2 hrs
Thanks, Liz
agree Mónica Algazi
4 hrs
Gracias
agree Juan Jacob : Absolutamente de acuerdo. Se ha preguntado muchísimas veces para México donde se usa mucho. Es un puro formalismo republicanoide y rancio. Todos somos ciudadanos, que yo sepa, además.
6 hrs
Muchas gracias
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"
7 mins

Dignitary

Dignitary: someone who has an important official position, e.g. "Visiting Dignitaries" (as defined by Macmillan English Dictionary for Advanced Learnrs)

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Note added at 8 mins (2007-07-07 17:00:34 GMT)
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Hope it helps. Good luck!!!
Something went wrong...
12 mins

Honorable(Hon'ble)

There doesn't seem to exist any other English equivalent than Hon'ble(At least as far as my knowledge goes)
Peer comment(s):
agree Marina Herrera : You're right. You can visit the pages of any newspaper talking about senators, governors and that's the adjective used.
1 hr
Thanks Marina!
disagree Juan Jacob : On the contrary: Ciudadano means nobody is honorable or not. Everybody is equal.
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
17 mins

Citizen Minister / Citizen President

Good that you provided as context that this is about Venezuela, as this is very important to the meaning of your phrase.
Remember that Venezuela has now a populist government and what these "citizen minister" and "citizen president" mean is that "they are citizens invested with these ranks, but still "workers" as any other citizen...", like in other times in Russia it could have been Comrade President, or in Argentina's Peron's times "Compañero Presidente".
I hope this is useful to you.
Peer comment(s):
agree R. Alex Jenkins : Exactly!!!
2 mins
neutral Yvonne Becker : Esta expresión no tiene que ver con el actual gobierno; en Venezuela, desde que tengo uso de razón se redactan los documentos con este tipo de expresión
19 mins
agree Henry Hinds : Used in Mexico also, applicable to anyone.
20 mins
agree Salloz : Como lo comenta Henry, en México se dice Ciudadano Presidente, Ciudadano Juez, etc. Hasta donde sé, viene de la Revolución Francesa y fue adoptado por muchas naciones de América Latina luego de la Independencia.
1 hr
neutral Juan Jacob : Con Yvonne, nada tiene que ver con el contexto político venezolano. Es un término acuñado después de la Independencia en muchos países latinoamericanos. Hoy no es más que un formulismo. Citizen XXX sería incomprensible para un angloparlante.
7 hrs
agree kategold
1 day 10 hrs
Something went wrong...
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