| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Different rates for the domestic+foreign markets? Thread poster: S_G_C (X)
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S_G_C (X)
Romania
Local time: 08:38
English to Romanian
Dear colleagues,
I have no idea what the situation in your home countries is. But...
Do you have different rates for your domestic and foreign clients? Also, different units of measure?
I do because this is the situation in my country. I'm not happy about it, but there's nothing I can do.
| | | | Darmali 
Indonesia
Local time: 12:38
English to Indonesian
+ ...
| Yes, because different conditions apply. | Nov 2, 2015 |
Here in Indonesia, different rates apply for domestic clients (in IDR) and foreign clients (in US$ or any other major currency), but payment for domestic jobs is quicker (one month at the most) and is made through domestic bank transfers without any additional charges, whereas payment for foreign jobs takes longer (30 days to 60 days), and are made through Paypal (for me), which imposes additional charges. Bank transfers through foreign banks are also expensive because of the role of corresponde... See more Here in Indonesia, different rates apply for domestic clients (in IDR) and foreign clients (in US$ or any other major currency), but payment for domestic jobs is quicker (one month at the most) and is made through domestic bank transfers without any additional charges, whereas payment for foreign jobs takes longer (30 days to 60 days), and are made through Paypal (for me), which imposes additional charges. Bank transfers through foreign banks are also expensive because of the role of correspondent/intermediate banks.
Angela ▲ Collapse
| | | | ATIL KAYHAN
Türkiye
Local time: 08:38
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
| The Same Rates | Nov 2, 2015 |
I have the same rates across the board, i.e. domestic and international. I use different rates of measure. For domestic, I use Turkish Lira, and for elsewhere I usually use USD unless the client prefers another one. However, my rate in TL is discounted, favoring domestic clients.
We live in a global market. I believe our services should cost pretty much the same everywhere. It might sound naive but this is my take. Imagine this: a translation agency can have offices in my home... See more I have the same rates across the board, i.e. domestic and international. I use different rates of measure. For domestic, I use Turkish Lira, and for elsewhere I usually use USD unless the client prefers another one. However, my rate in TL is discounted, favoring domestic clients.
We live in a global market. I believe our services should cost pretty much the same everywhere. It might sound naive but this is my take. Imagine this: a translation agency can have offices in my home country as well as in foreign countries. Which rate are you going to use then? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:38
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| If the bills are the same, the income can't be lower | Nov 2, 2015 |
I can understand raising your rates if you think clients in a particular market will pay more (e.g. a freelancer working out of India for a Swiss client), but I don't understand why the reverse should ever apply.
As has already been said, we live in a global economy and we are particularly free in our profession to make use of that. I had lots of French clients when I lived there but until recently I was living here in Spain with no Spanish clients, as they wouldn't pay my rates. O... See more I can understand raising your rates if you think clients in a particular market will pay more (e.g. a freelancer working out of India for a Swiss client), but I don't understand why the reverse should ever apply.
As has already been said, we live in a global economy and we are particularly free in our profession to make use of that. I had lots of French clients when I lived there but until recently I was living here in Spain with no Spanish clients, as they wouldn't pay my rates. On the other hand, I've invoiced clients in 25 different countries since my arrival here in 2012. And every invoice has been for the same hourly rate (with a few exceptions for other reasons). This month I even sent an invoice to China for the first time ever .
So if I were you, I'd concentrate my marketing effort on those countries where clients will accept YOUR rate, and on those clients who will accept YOUR payment terms. If you can't get enough work from them, then you need to do whatever you need to do to put food on the table (flip burgers if necessary), but leave enough time for both active marketing and passive (networking). ▲ Collapse
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| You have to be realistic | Nov 2, 2015 |
You are prefectly entitled to charge whatever rates you can agree on with your clients. Different situations apply with different languages, and the cost of living IS simply not the same in different parts of the world.
You have to make a living, but so do your clients. Some agencies can pass on costs to the end client, but for others it is not so easy.
It is simply not possible to live in Scandinavia as I do, on the rates some agencies consider perfectly reasonable in... See more You are prefectly entitled to charge whatever rates you can agree on with your clients. Different situations apply with different languages, and the cost of living IS simply not the same in different parts of the world.
You have to make a living, but so do your clients. Some agencies can pass on costs to the end client, but for others it is not so easy.
It is simply not possible to live in Scandinavia as I do, on the rates some agencies consider perfectly reasonable in their countries. I cannot work exclusively for Scandinavian agencies, as many end clients quite naturally go to agencies in England when they want an English translator.
A few pay the same rates as Scandinavian agencies, but many don't, and the whole setup is different. I negotiate the best rates I can with them, but working all the time like that is far better than only working half the time for top rates. And the pay better than burger-flipping here, assuming if I could find a job!
Naturally, I refuse to go below a certain limit, which fluctuates slightly with currency exchange rates. I check when I can what others are charging. The CIoL and ITI did a rates survey a few years ago, and the German BDÜ does one, I believe. You can see average rates in your language pairs on this site, but they are not differentiated for different markets.
http://search.proz.com/?sp=pfe/rates
It is not possible to find a single rate that will apply across all markets - there are too many other variables, even though it is an attractive principle.
For many other services, rates vary on different markets.
Work out a viable rate for each type of job, so that you know what to ask for, and find the levels on the markets you work in. The important thing is to compete on quality, and not undercut others.
Then you can give priority to the markets where you earn best, and take work from the others when you have time.
Best of luck! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Requested by poster | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 07:38
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Sorana_M. wrote:
Do you have different rates for your domestic and foreign clients? Also, different units of measure?
I adapt my rate and my terms and conditions to the market that the client is in. There is nothing wrong with that. You can choose to work only in markets that pay high rates, or you can choose to spread your risk among markets with high rates and low rates.
| | | | S_G_C (X)
Romania
Local time: 08:38
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | Take it or leave it | Nov 2, 2015 |
I have just passed some translation tests for a domestic agency. They congratulated me and sent me their offer - meaning the rates they are willing to pay me. It's a take it or leave it situation.
I have said this before, for the Romanian domestic market, negotiations are hardly possible.
My work is valued as 2,000 characters with spaces (1 page) for X RON for the domestic market and as X EUR or USD cents per sw for the foreign market.
It's the same work a... See more I have just passed some translation tests for a domestic agency. They congratulated me and sent me their offer - meaning the rates they are willing to pay me. It's a take it or leave it situation.
I have said this before, for the Romanian domestic market, negotiations are hardly possible.
My work is valued as 2,000 characters with spaces (1 page) for X RON for the domestic market and as X EUR or USD cents per sw for the foreign market.
It's the same work and the same quality. ▲ Collapse
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Edward Vreeburg
Netherlands
Local time: 07:38
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| yes... and NO! | Nov 2, 2015 |
Yes of course I charge clients MORE if they can afford more, if they value the translation higher or if their profits are directly increased by my work (i.e. if they land a public tender worth a couple of million, or a new client worth several thousands....)
However if the client is from India, China or some other country where clients cannot always afford what I charge, I simply tell them that they are not ready for the international market yet...
They products (along ... See more Yes of course I charge clients MORE if they can afford more, if they value the translation higher or if their profits are directly increased by my work (i.e. if they land a public tender worth a couple of million, or a new client worth several thousands....)
However if the client is from India, China or some other country where clients cannot always afford what I charge, I simply tell them that they are not ready for the international market yet...
They products (along with my translation) will be sold in the Netherlands, at DUTCH prices in EUROS.... So for the (end) customer there is a lot to gain. And whether they pay 10 of 100 euro for a translation of the packaging/manual - if they sell 10.000 units, the cost of translation is 0,000001 % of the budget regardless....
So why should I have lower prices for Indian companies, if some (even Dutch!) company goes to India for a cheap translation???
Ed ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Can't recommend working for the low rate sector | Nov 2, 2015 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Sorana_M. wrote:
Do you have different rates for your domestic and foreign clients? Also, different units of measure?
I adapt my rate and my terms and conditions to the market that the client is in. There is nothing wrong with that. You can choose to work only in markets that pay high rates, or you can choose to spread your risk among markets with high rates and low rates.
How much adapting do you do, Samuel?
As far as I am concerned, I will not work with agencies or clients that don't accept professional rates - to all you newcomers, I suggest looking at rates published on the Proz.com translation rate page:
http://search.proz.com/employers/rates
You will notice that rates are not that different across the board and that they apply to language pairs, not countries. This is a global profession, and any flexibility in pricing must be limited to a certain degree, and it certainly is in the professional realm of our industry.
So let me add that the rates published at Proz.com's translation rate page are already at the low end of the professional spectrum. Experienced translators charge much more.
It is not necessary and not good advice to any translator (new or experienced) to slave away for unprofessional agencies, no matter how many times you do it. This only fills those agencies' pockets.
I think it's not good career advice to work in the low-rate sector of our industry, even when combined with the acceptable sector. The lower the rate, the more difficult it usually becomes to get paid at all. Check out forum posts about non-payment and late payment and blueboard ratings. The low-rate sector is not a place you want to go to. Too many problems are waiting for you there.
To maintain a professional service, I recommend that translators apply certain professional standards and best practices, and that includes the prices. I myself consider anything lower than the standard! rates published on the Proz.com translation rate page as unacceptable for a professional.
Undercutting these rates in hopes of more business doesn't help us professional translators because it takes jobs away from us and allows exploitation of the translators who accept them. It doesn't help the translator who carries them out either because you will work much harder and longer and faster and the quality of your work will suffer and you're simply at the beginning of a downward (very dangerous!) spiral.
However, there are plenty of professional projects out there and the need for professionals is increasing, and, as I say below, a continued trend for rock bottom services can actually be a blessing in disguise for us who refuse to go "down" there.
The recent trend towards ever-lower rate demands from outsourcers on job portals and new tricks applied by them to justify lower rates - for example posting translation jobs as editing tasks by calling it PEMT (post-editing machine translations - you can search for that here in the forum), paired with the willingness of those translators who don't know any better or don't want to know any better will hopefully widen the gap between amateurs and professionals even more, and that's not a bad thing for us. When the quality is poor, those who are to blame for it (outsourcers as well as translators) won't be successful for long if at all. It will strengthen the need for those of us that do this as a professional career.
[Edited at 2015-11-02 14:57 GMT]
| | | | S_G_C (X)
Romania
Local time: 08:38
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER | Low rate issue | Nov 2, 2015 |
I see some of you mentioned the low rate issue.
I did not think about that when I opened the thread. I do not know whether my Romanian colleagues are working for the domestic market or not or whether they are faced with the same situation as I am (Ioana is the only Romanian translator who answered).
As I have said before, I passed several translation tests, last week and before that and the year before. There was no negotiation involved when I received the agency's OK. ... See more I see some of you mentioned the low rate issue.
I did not think about that when I opened the thread. I do not know whether my Romanian colleagues are working for the domestic market or not or whether they are faced with the same situation as I am (Ioana is the only Romanian translator who answered).
As I have said before, I passed several translation tests, last week and before that and the year before. There was no negotiation involved when I received the agency's OK. It was like "we are happy to let you know that you passed our tests. We would like to have you in our team and will be paying you an amount of X RON for 2,000 characters with spaces".
One agency offered me a way too low rate for medical translations (English to Romanian ). I negotiated and managed to get a better rate. However, their final answer was "although we believe we could be able to pay you the rate you asked, we still prefer to have our medical translations done by Medicine students". Well, good luck.
So far, I have had no problems with getting paid. However, what you call low market is normal market in Romania. At least for me. It does not mean that the quality of my work is poor. It simply is the reality presented to me.
[Edited at 2015-11-02 17:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Requested by poster |
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S_G_C (X)
Romania
Local time: 08:38
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Ioana,
The domestic agencies that I have contacted or that have contacted me act as if they have concluded some sort of deal - like "let's stick to this range, offer a minimum of X and a maximum of X+1 or X+2 or X+3".
I don't know what to say, I imagine they know their competitors, do regular check-ups of the current domestic rates, see no reason to offer more, since there is always someone who will accept their peanuts, as you call them...
It is also true... See more Ioana,
The domestic agencies that I have contacted or that have contacted me act as if they have concluded some sort of deal - like "let's stick to this range, offer a minimum of X and a maximum of X+1 or X+2 or X+3".
I don't know what to say, I imagine they know their competitors, do regular check-ups of the current domestic rates, see no reason to offer more, since there is always someone who will accept their peanuts, as you call them...
It is also true that the number of translators working in my language pairs has increased tremendously over the years. That is why I have taken the first opportunity that showed up to change my fields of expertise. And it seems I did well. However, domestic rates do no care about that.
As for the foreign market, I'd like to understand how foreign clients choose their language specialist. What makes them pick the right one out of 20 or 30 candidates, let's say.
(I'm sorry my posts don't get through sooner). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Requested by poster | S_G_C (X)
Romania
Local time: 08:38
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Ioana Costache wrote:
It's ultimately YOUR decision whether to work with them or not.
Certainly, and, over the years, I have accepted several offers and rejected several others.
However, for me, as a translator, having chosen this profession mostly with my heart, it's disappointing to see how discouraging the domestic situation looks.
As for the foreign market, I have to confess we haven't yet managed to become friends. It's not the first time I hear about the great number of professional projects out there, however, none is coming my way. Meanwhile, I keep gathering domestic references.
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