| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16] > | Off topic: Qualifications and Skills of Moderator and Users in Chinese Forum? Thread poster: chica nueva
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chica nueva
Local time: 08:55
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Still going... | Jan 12, 2007 |
Peers, you are still debating?
Amazing. Remarkable. Unbelievable. Who would have thought it.
[Edited at 2007-01-12 22:59]
| | | | wherestip 
United States
Local time: 15:55
Chinese to English
+ ...
| misunderstandings | Jan 12, 2007 |
Lesley McLachlan wrote:
Peers, you are still debating?
Amazing. Remarkable. Unbelievable. Who would have thought it.
It's not debating. It's called "clearing the air".
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
| Lesley，别担心，我们在友好探讨 | Jan 13, 2007 |
有时候，我们这些受了西方文化影响的译者会有一种奇怪的幽默和探讨方法
Lesley McLachlan wrote:
Peers, you are still debating?
Amazing. Remarkable. Unbelievable. Who would have thought it.
[Edited at 2007-01-12 22:59]
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
你又出什么“见不得人”的帖子了？不打自招
本来我没注意到你那贴，我和Kevin 说的也不是你那贴，现在你和Steve一说，我倒好奇了，但也不是非想知道。说实话，你的好多帖子我都是跳着看的，这几天好一些，我反而比较认真读你的帖子了，这就叫事与愿违吧？
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Modz 只能屏蔽贴文，不能删帖。我曾要求把某些不合宜的帖子暂时屏蔽。这种事是可商量的，Kevin 确实也与我商量。高姿态、说教的文字总是不恰当的，也不利于和气生财的心愿，所以我同意屏蔽某些文字。
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Kevin Yang
Local time: 13:55
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
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| 版主使用屏蔽的次数相当少见。 | Jan 13, 2007 |
chance wrote: 给你提个建议，不知是否合适？ 如果你或其他MOD认为有些帖子不合适需要删除时，最好在原贴处稍微说明一下，或是只删除不合适的字句。否则出贴人或其他想回贴的同仁可能会有一丝不快，甚至误会。 我这个人比较粗，没发现你删除帖子，除了前几天wherestip的一贴，我本想答复，却怎么也找不到。我估计你是怕再引起不快，感谢你的好意。但是有些网友可能会不太理解，如果每次解释会过分加大你的工作量。也可以在论坛一次性解释清楚，大家心里明白就可以避免不必要的不快了。 我知道这几天我的帖子可能已经刺激你不少，所以在你可能发火前再提一次建议。说实话，我现在不在Proz赚钱，也无所谓交友(请大家不要为这句话生气  ) 所以有点不可救药了，大家不要向我学就行！
Chance,
你的帖子从来没有被屏蔽过，你却对这个事情感兴趣，让我产生一些联想。既然你问了，我就借此机会向你和朋友们说明一下。
你有一个理解误区，需要纠正一下。每个帖子只有张贴人自己能够删除，版主无权删除，但是版主可以屏蔽被认为有问题的帖子，或者修改帖子的标题。至于为什么要屏蔽某个帖子，有很多规定和考虑因素，版主拥有直接决策权，并通知张贴人相关屏蔽决定。这种决定与非当事人无关，也无需作出解释。版主也不可能有时间去指导张贴者如何修改其帖子，这是张贴人本人的责任。
在一般情况下，我们的翻译朋友都持理解态度，比如像文哲和Steve所说的那样。即使一时不理解，我也尽力说明我的理由，不应该有什么误会可言。版主使用屏蔽的次数相当少见。这是因为我们的翻译朋友们知道论坛规则，懂得如何顾全大局，说话友善，以及如何创建和谐的氛围。以下部分必须使用英文，以便让管理部门看明白我的言论。
My reaction to your comment/suggestion is that the moderator does not delete any messages. I only hide those I believe they contain the content that is not appropriate for the thread or the forum. I always explain the reason of my action by email to the poster or other means to inform the poster. It is a business between the poster the moderator. There is no rule says I need to explain to the rest of the readers. The website is designed that the moderator cannot edit a post; it is also not feasible for the moderator to help the poster to edit his/her message and make it fit.
For you and those who are wondering about this practice of moderator, please read the following detailed answers from Enrique:
a) Moderators can not edit other people's post (only the title of the threads), as editing other people's posts would "put words in the original posters' mouths" and would destroy accountability of what was posted (as it could not be possible to know who really posted what).
b) Moderators can de-vet posts to ask posters to edit some details (in this case the post is made invisible and, one edited, will require approval from the mod). This can be done to ask posters to correct details in an otherwise valid contribution.
c) When posts are clearly against the rules, moderators are actually REQUESTED to delete them. See for instance the first rule of forums http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1 that says "Postings which are political, religious, or otherwise controversial in nature, or that may be considered offensive by other users, will be removed without regard to the views expressed. [ For details, see the site's Definition of Scope ]"
d) Replacing the deleted post with another one explaining the reasons of the deletion has been discussed in the mods forum but it is not part of our policies. Posters are responsible for following the rules and mods to enforce them. A post with an explanation should include a description of the hidden post and it would be difficult to follow by users who can't read the hidden posting. Besides threads would become more cluttered and the posting explaining the deletion would depart from the posted topic, this violating rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/4#4
I hope this helps
Kind regards,
Kevin
[修改时间: 2007-01-13 02:07]
| | | | Yi-Hua Shih
Taiwan
Local time: 04:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
因著我建議 Lesley 把她在這一 thread 裏的許多標題剪貼一下、呈現出她較完整的對 Moderator 及 User 的看法，所以特別注意了這一 thread 的回覆(發言)通知。除了前述 wenjer 和 wherestip 的是有看到回覆通知卻找不到貼文外，還有兩封是 Lesley 的回覆，頭一封她說要不要整理、想聽聽其他 peers 的意見；第二封她說她就不整理了。這兩篇貼文我在網上也找不著。
更稍早好像還有 ... See more 因著我建議 Lesley 把她在這一 thread 裏的許多標題剪貼一下、呈現出她較完整的對 Moderator 及 User 的看法，所以特別注意了這一 thread 的回覆(發言)通知。除了前述 wenjer 和 wherestip 的是有看到回覆通知卻找不到貼文外，還有兩封是 Lesley 的回覆，頭一封她說要不要整理、想聽聽其他 peers 的意見；第二封她說她就不整理了。這兩篇貼文我在網上也找不著。
更稍早好像還有 PK 的第二篇關於 Moderator 規範所找到的參考文件，有收到發言通知，但在網上也沒看見。
我原本因為這種種的落差而一頭霧水，不知是系統有問題還是怎的。由於更早前曾有人聲稱貼文被刪、要求 Moderator給個 說明，但從我收到的發言通知裏的發言編號來比對，他的發言明明還在網上，只是內容完全改了；所以我還真以為是系統有問題呢。不過現在看來，應該有些是發言人自己改了內容卻不承認，有些是真被 Moderator 隱藏了，系統本身的穩定性應該還沒什麼大問題才是。
總之，我也多多注意別寫些發出後又會造成自己、他人困擾，而要勞動 Kevin 管理的帖子就是了。
chance wrote: 给你提个建议，不知是否合适？ 如果你或其他MOD认为有些帖子不合适需要删除时，最好在原贴处稍微说明一下，或是只删除不合适的字句。否则出贴人或其他想回贴的同仁可能会有一丝不快，甚至误会。 我这个人比较粗，没发现你删除帖子，除了前几天wherestip的一贴，我本想答复，却怎么也找不到。我估计你是怕再引起不快，感谢你的好意。但是有些网友可能会不太理解，如果每次解释会过分加大你的工作量。也可以在论坛一次性解释清楚，大家心里明白就可以避免不必要的不快了。 我知道这几天我的帖子可能已经刺激你不少，所以在你可能发火前再提一次建议。说实话，我现在不在Proz赚钱，也无所谓交友(请大家不要为这句话生气 ) 所以有点不可救药了，大家不要向我学就行！ ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kevin Yang
Local time: 13:55
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 我几天前已经告诉大家多次这个话题结束了。 | Jan 13, 2007 |
chance wrote: 我知道这几天我的帖子可能已经刺激你不少，所以在你可能发火前再提一次建议。说实话，我现在不在Proz赚钱，也无所谓交友(请大家不要为这句话生气 ) 所以有点不可救药了，大家不要向我学就行！
chance wrote: 我估计你很年轻，根本不是什么“姨”辈，你在帮倒忙啊！好在现在Kevin越来越大度，否则咱俩就等着瞧吧
Chance，
我几天前已经告诉大家多次这个话题结束了。希望不要继续扩大或加深这个话题的讨论。谢谢！
另外，这么多年，能够刺激我的东西太少了。不知为何让你觉得我是发火，没有那么严重吧？好像你对我的大度也不放心。要是开玩笑就算了，如果真有所指，我倒想听听那些事可以算是我公报私仇的地方。我不记得有这样的事情。
Kevin
[修改时间: 2007-01-13 08:07]
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 04:55
English to Chinese
+ ...
chance,
沒有什麼見不得人的東西，只是為了結束話題，有時不得不做出一些比較不尋常的動作。Kevin 在這方面見解和我是相同的，I am OK, he is OK, everybody is OK.
有時我也有可能會不小心刪去自己的貼文，事後我也可能搞不清楚情況，一方面我找不到原貼，另一方面發生錯誤後，我也沒什麼好多解釋的了。
總之，如有錯誤、罪過，萬方無罪，罪在於我�... See more chance,
沒有什麼見不得人的東西，只是為了結束話題，有時不得不做出一些比較不尋常的動作。Kevin 在這方面見解和我是相同的，I am OK, he is OK, everybody is OK.
有時我也有可能會不小心刪去自己的貼文，事後我也可能搞不清楚情況，一方面我找不到原貼，另一方面發生錯誤後，我也沒什麼好多解釋的了。
總之，如有錯誤、罪過，萬方無罪，罪在於我，只要我認為是我的問題，由我自行解決即可。
- Wenjer
chance wrote: 你又出什么“见不得人”的帖子了？不打自招 本来我没注意到你那贴，我和Kevin 说的也不是你那贴，现在你和Steve一说，我倒好奇了，但也不是非想知道。说实话，你的好多帖子我都是跳着看的，这几天好一些，我反而比较认真读你的帖子了，这就叫事与愿违吧？ Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Modz 只能屏蔽贴文，不能删帖。我曾要求把某些不合宜的帖子暂时屏蔽。这种事是可商量的，Kevin 确实也与我商量。高姿态、说教的文字总是不恰当的，也不利于和气生财的心愿，所以我同意屏蔽某些文字。
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Kevin Yang
Local time: 13:55
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 既然提出来了，就顺便说说，减少些猜忌也好。 | Jan 13, 2007 |
Wenjer，
你真客气，还花时间帮助解释，谢谢你！其实这是当事人的事情。也是版主职权范围内正常工作，没有什么值得大惊小怪的。既然提出来了，就顺便说说，减少些猜忌也好。
Kevin
| | | | redred
China
Local time: 04:55
English to Chinese
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| To Chinoise/Betty | Jan 13, 2007 |
chance wrote: 我估计你很年轻，根本不是什么“姨”辈，你在帮倒忙啊！好在现在Kevin越来越大度，否则咱俩就等着瞧吧 [Edited at 2007-01-12 19:39]
就是嘛。小贝想“篡权夺位”姨级，可不够格。不要总以“贾”（假）姨的身份出现呗。
| | | | Chinoise
Local time: 17:55
English to Chinese
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chance家的小苏菲·玛索曾说过这样一句极为经典的话：“二十岁以上就算老（人）了”。所以，俺是当之无愧的贝姨。:D
redred wrote: chance wrote: 我估计你很年轻，根本不是什么“姨”辈，你在帮倒忙啊！好在现在Kevin越来越大度，否则咱俩就等着瞧吧 [Edited at 2007-01-12 19:39] 就是嘛。小贝想“篡权夺位”姨级，可不够格。不要总以“贾”（假）姨的身份出现呗。
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
谢你心平气和向我们解释清楚，这样就好，可以避免可能的误会。我确实没发现你屏蔽我的帖子。说心里话，我发现你近一两年MOD的工作越做越Cool, 所以你放心，如果有疑问的地方，大家都知道可以心平气和地提出讨论，我也不会老给你捣乱。说你可能发火，看来也是低估了版主的胸怀，请原谅。
说明一下，我并不认为发火一定是坏事，人总是要有感情和感情的表达才正常。文哲的帖子常让我发火，有时我也刺激他，好在我们都是见过世面的人，所以冷静后仍然可以探讨一些问题，我和他说话也就随便一些了。
祝你周末愉快
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Angus Woo
Local time: 04:55
Chinese to English
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| Egalitarianism | Jan 14, 2007 |
Kevin,
First of all, In my opinion, nobody is trying to harm the company's business plan. This is a serious and yet unproven allegation. In fact, all the discussions in this thread are about how to improve this place by making more people feel comfortable rather than how to destroy this place. Without this platform, all the active speakers won't even exist in the first place, and everybody knows the logic.
Thank you for telling us that the moderator is not allowed to d... See more Kevin,
First of all, In my opinion, nobody is trying to harm the company's business plan. This is a serious and yet unproven allegation. In fact, all the discussions in this thread are about how to improve this place by making more people feel comfortable rather than how to destroy this place. Without this platform, all the active speakers won't even exist in the first place, and everybody knows the logic.
Thank you for telling us that the moderator is not allowed to delete any post but only to hide them.
Regarding this issue, I also have something else that I want to share with others. To a certain extent, I do not agree with what you said that if the moderator hides a post, it's just a thing between the moderator and the poster. Of course, one can't imagine that whenever a moderator decides to hide something, he/she has to explain it to everybody present here. It's simply not feasible.
However, since a moderator is the upholder of the rules and you said you always speak to other participants as the moderator and moderators should tell the poster why when his/her post has been hidden from the public, then here comes my question.
Egalitarianism
Everybody should be treated equally which means the same rule should apply to everybody, not just a particular participant. So logically, there is no such a thing as just between the moderator and the poster. It's always the moderator and everyone, for the moderator's answer should carry the binding power over everyone in an egalitarian manner. It's a tough job you got there. If a post in the eyes of quite a number of participants that it has not violated any rule and yet it's hidden, then it's the moderator's responsibility to tell everyone if there has been a change in the rules or a different interpretation of the old rule, for those speakers are likely to repeat the same mistake again if not informed.
Also, you said in Chinese that in case a post is hidden, the moderator should let the poster know why. Again, I hope this rule applies to everyone. I mean everyone.
Another thing is that I don't think the moderator should declare a post closed, unless peaceful, constructive communication and exchange of ideas between the interlocutors have clearly become impossible, for the moderator is the keeper of the rules and the keeper of peace, but not the shaper of consensus.
At last, allow me to recite one of the cornerstones of this forum that is it tries to make "everybody" feel welcomed, including even by passers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
+ ...
随便说一句供你参考：
经常出没法语论坛的MODS好像也有西班牙和意大利论坛的MODS，他们在法语论坛以MOD身份处理问题从来都是直接用法语，不会再同时贴出英语以便管理部门检查。当然也许是文化不同，法语论坛很少会有人(可能从来没有人)会直接给管理部门投诉的
就像Betty也注意到的：法语论坛的人很清楚地知道PROZ的地化是纯粹的商业需要，他们不会幼稚地把它与发扬民族语言联系在一起，所以一般有正常工作的译者都不会去参加地化。
对不起要经常谈一些不顺耳的大实话，不过我发现你经常比较能理解我的意思，不像文哲，与我探讨最多，但往往不知我所指
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