Jan 3, 2006 13:27
19 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term
salomonjb
This will be the first time
Non-PRO
English
Art/Literary
Linguistics
Hello, can you help me please. I can't explain why this is wrong/right
1. This is the first time he has visited his aunt.
2. This was the firs time he had visited her aunt
3. It / this will be the first time he is visiting / will visit his aunt
In none of the grammar books I have thumbed through so far is the last option (no:3) discussed. How can we speak of the future plans or intentions in a sentence beginning with "This will be the first time.........."
Your help is much appreciated. Thank you
1. This is the first time he has visited his aunt.
2. This was the firs time he had visited her aunt
3. It / this will be the first time he is visiting / will visit his aunt
In none of the grammar books I have thumbed through so far is the last option (no:3) discussed. How can we speak of the future plans or intentions in a sentence beginning with "This will be the first time.........."
Your help is much appreciated. Thank you
Responses
| 4 +10 | This will be the first time he has visited... |
Nick Lingris
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| 5 +3 | see note below |
Elizabeth Lyons
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| 3 +3 | he visits |
Armorel Young
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Change log
Jan 3, 2006 13:29: Steffen Walter changed "Term asked" from "This will be the firs time" to "This will be the first time"
Responses
+10
26 mins
Nick Lingris
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The word is my oyster
Native in: Greek 
Works in: English to Greek, Greek to English, Greek
Related KudoZ points
:
52
Selected
This will be the first time he has visited...
The structure you are describing in 1 and 2 is also a very common alternative in the future.
Have a look at these UK examples:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&rls=...
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Note added at 28 mins (2006-01-03 13:55:50 GMT)
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As a matter of fact, all BBC examples are followed by the present perfect:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&rls=...
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Note added at 14 hrs 53 mins (2006-01-04 04:21:28 GMT)
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There's a sentence transformation test in http://esl.about.com/od/advancedgrammar/a/sentrans_one.htm
The ability to rewrite sentences so that they have the same meaning as the original is often required for many English ESL EFL Exams such as Cambridge's First Certificate, CAE and Proficiency. This skill can also help you prepare for the TOEFL examination (Test of English as a Foreign Language). It is also an important skill which can help you improve your understanding of similar English expressions and vocabulary.
Sentence Transformation Quiz
This will be my student's first performance in Canada.
This will be the first time ____________
Correct answer:
This will be the first time my student has performed in Canada.
Oh, and Michael Swan makes reference to cases (1) and (2) only (in the edition I own, at least).
Have a look at these UK examples:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&rls=...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2006-01-03 13:55:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As a matter of fact, all BBC examples are followed by the present perfect:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&rls=...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs 53 mins (2006-01-04 04:21:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
There's a sentence transformation test in http://esl.about.com/od/advancedgrammar/a/sentrans_one.htm
The ability to rewrite sentences so that they have the same meaning as the original is often required for many English ESL EFL Exams such as Cambridge's First Certificate, CAE and Proficiency. This skill can also help you prepare for the TOEFL examination (Test of English as a Foreign Language). It is also an important skill which can help you improve your understanding of similar English expressions and vocabulary.
Sentence Transformation Quiz
This will be my student's first performance in Canada.
This will be the first time ____________
Correct answer:
This will be the first time my student has performed in Canada.
Oh, and Michael Swan makes reference to cases (1) and (2) only (in the edition I own, at least).
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Armorel Young
: Yes, this is better than my suggestion - it sounds more natural.
5 mins
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Thanks, Armorel. Happy 2006! To you and everyone at Proz.com.
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| agree |
Jack Doughty
: Same to you!
25 mins
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All the best in the new year, Jack!
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| agree |
Paola Giardina
34 mins
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Thanks, Paola. Happy 06!
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| agree |
Clare C
: sounds right
39 mins
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Thanks, Clare.
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| agree |
Peter Shortall
: Yes. Sometimes English is thoroughly illogical in its expression of time and tense!
45 mins
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Thanks, Peter.
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| agree |
flipendo
: I agree with you, but the results for "this will be the first time he will..." are equally many!
50 mins
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I'm just saying that the "have" structure is also often used. I myself find it amazing that it is the only structure used in the BBC examples. I'd be happy with "the first time he will be visiting" and I believe there's an obvious difference in meaning.
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| agree |
Rachel Fell
4 hrs
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Hi, Rachel. Thanks and all the best!
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| agree |
Sophia Finos (X)
7 hrs
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Hi! Again!
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| disagree |
russka (X)
: but, I guess Asker is talking about event which will have place in the future, and in this suggestion, second part of it shows that the event already has happened. // see the book by Michael Swan "PRACTICAL ENGLISH USAGE"
9 hrs
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Isn't language strange? Have a look at these examples from printed books http://books.google.com/books?q="this will be the first time... and you will see the preponderance of the use of the present perfect.
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| agree |
Alfa Trans (X)
: Present Perfect is correct in sentences including the first time, the second time etc, i.e. including ordinals.//Future Present Perfect is necessary in sentences like "I'll have finished the work by Friday" but not in this case. Kali hronia, Nick!
16 hrs
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Hi, Marju, thanks! And happy happy 2006!
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| agree |
Laurel Porter (X)
: What about the future perfect, as in Rachel's comment to Elizabeth's answer? Is that a dying tense? I find examples on google, but very few...
18 hrs
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Though this is not a time clause (you know, "by the time they have finished" and the like), it seems that one 'will' is enough to do the job.
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| agree |
Vicky Papaprodromou
1 day 3 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+3
12 mins
he visits
"This will be the first time he visits his aunt" is what sounds right to me - "he is visiting" sounds wrong in the future, and "he will visit" is not what people would actually say.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
BrigitteHilgner
: As a foreigner, I have a grammar book and that states quite clearly that in this case ("that-sentence") the simple present is the correct tense.
59 mins
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| agree |
russka (X)
10 hrs
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| agree |
Premium✍️
: This option seems more grammatically correct. The present tense makes the act of visiting "actual", and serves the "tense agreement" perfectly well.
11 hrs
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| neutral |
Laurel Porter (X)
: Can't explain why, sadly, but to this native speaker (US) this sounds incorrect.
18 hrs
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+3
15 mins
Elizabeth Lyons
United States
United States
Native in English
&
English
United States
Scientist / Linguist
Native in: English (Variants: UK, US) 
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, Portuguese to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
see note below
Without other context, one assumes that there is a description of a planned and specific visit, for some specific occasion and/or on a specific date, as in, for example:
The wedding on February 8th will be the first time that he will visit his aunt (or be visiting his aunt), since she had her accident.
An event is described in the present, but occurs in the future. So, it is a current description of a future event. HTH
The wedding on February 8th will be the first time that he will visit his aunt (or be visiting his aunt), since she had her accident.
An event is described in the present, but occurs in the future. So, it is a current description of a future event. HTH
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Francesca Callegari
40 mins
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Grazie, Francesca : )
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| agree |
flipendo
: Happy New Year, Elizabeth!
59 mins
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And to you flipendo, as well as thanks : )
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| neutral |
Rachel Fell
: Happy New Year Elizabeth: this must be a US English construction (which I don't know), as in UK English it has to be as Nick's answ. or perh. "This will be the 1st time that he will have visited..." ; interesting how US differs
4 hrs
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Happy New Year to you as well Rachel and thank you. Quite possibly this is the key difference. How nice it would be if we were all speaking the same English! : ))
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| agree |
russka (X)
: can be this way too
10 hrs
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Thanks russka : )
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Discussion