Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
esprit d\'escalier
English translation:
afterwit
French term
esprit d'escalier
Anyway, next day at communal breakfast for those of us who had stayed over (this was in a very nice large chateau-domaine, where they did a lot of entertaining and had loads of rooms), I was up one end of the table, she was down the other, and she called down the table, 'Ho, la jeune, passe-moi le sel!' - this in a deliberately inflammatory tone, which was a continuation of her covert unpleasantness to me from the previous evening. The very nice lady next to me grabbed my hand to calm me - I passed the other woman the salt, and I defended myself and my youth; apparently very ably.
However, later I thought, damn, the perfect response was simply to pass the salt with a divine smile, saying 'Tiens, ma vieille.'
This, I was told, is esprit d'escalier. 'Afterthought' just is not good enough, and I would love to find a decent English phrase to reflect it.
A vous, les aminches!
Background info | Emma Paulay |
Proposed translations
afterwit
agree |
Emma Paulay
: Yes, this looks to be in use.
38 mins
|
agree |
Wolf Draeger
20 hrs
|
staircase wit
I don't think there is an exact equivalent in English.
L\'esprit de l\'escalier or L\'esprit d\'escalier (literally, staircase wit) is a French term used in English
belated wit
I think the phrase was coined by Diderot. Maybe we should invent one of our own.
hindsight is a fine thing
esprit d'escalier, stair(case) wit, elevator wit
People in France have a phrase: "Spirit of the Stairway." In French: esprit d'Escalier. It means that moment when you find the answer but it's too late.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Haunted_%28novel%29
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esprit%20d%27escalier
agree |
emiledgar
: Yes, elevator wit. As for the example "Spirit of the Stairway." Esprit in this case is really "wit" not "spirit". "Spirit of the Stairway" sounds like the stairs are haunted; there's a ghost problem...
1 hr
|
agree |
philgoddard
: It's too elegant to translate.
6 hrs
|
in retrospect
delayed repartee
slow witted comeback
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Note added at 58 mins (2012-07-02 08:58:45 GMT)
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On second thoughts, late-witted would be better as slow-witted suggests a lack of intelligence.
inability to think of witty comebacks
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Funny
If you wait too long, even very funny comments will lose their impact. For example, if someone says something to you and you think of a witty comeback two hours later, you're probably better off just keeping it to yourself. It won't be funny anymore, and you'll look slow, and possibly daft.
conceiving a clever reply long after the event
exwit (exit wit) OR postwit
Sorry for entering two options together; didn't want to post two separate answers.
Note that these are variations on the established term "afterwit" (see Ide's entry).
Reference comments
Background info
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Note added at 55 mins (2012-07-02 08:56:07 GMT)
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http://www.montana.edu/mountainsandminds/article.php?article...
Thankyou, Emma - The Americans, I see, have sensibly created their own version of it, and I do like 'elevator wit' - but not current in the UK, since we say lift and 'lift wit' doesn't work - maybe 'escalator wit' should be the new version :D |
Discussion
Still, I don't feel toooo guilty, there are often multiple conversations about a same topic, and of course one of the good things about it is that, since new people come along, they can bring up new ideas; which is very much the case in this instance:
the glossary does not answer my need. The final vote was to use the original, which is of course a perfectly valid response, but I am still seeking the perfect English version; and there are only 2 other answers, 'staircase wit' (discussed here and not satisfying to me) and 'which can leave pensive', which may have been OK in the context.
So, it is definitely, in my opinion, worth the new discussion; because I'm still a fan of afterwit!
I have of course encountered staircase wit (and actually, elevator wit) before, but have not been satisfied with it, because it is a literal translation but does not necessarily work for the English mind; especially the modern English mind. Of course, if it were 'invented' now, it would not work for the modern French mind that well, either - but since it is a phrase that remains current parlance in French, it doesn't need to be modern, it is understood and accepted in itself.
So far I am most enjoying 'afterwit', which I have never heard before but which obviously historically existed - and I wonder if indeed it was a then-invention precisely to fill this gap! I think it needs to be brought back into the language.
'hindsight is a fine thing' is often used to fill the gap (or 'a wonderful thing'); but I am not quite happy with it, so the search goes on :)
Thanks all for your enthusiastic input!