Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

le politique

English translation:

the political / the political realm

Added to glossary by Howard Sugar
Feb 9, 2013 14:03
11 yrs ago
5 viewers *
French term

le politique

French to English Social Sciences Government / Politics Philosophy
I have a problem here translating "le politique" as opposed to "la politique". For example "Le politique, en effet, n’est pas un élément second, surajouté à la société, mais sa dimension constitutive," or "Le politique n’est donc pas lié d’abord à la question du pouvoi"

The paper also uses "la politique" as in la politique se définissant comme refoulement de la violence et assomption d’un pouvoir
Hence there translated terms must be different.
I have seen "le politique" translated as "the political" however this didn't seem like a good way to translate the expression.

Discussion

ViBe Feb 15, 2013:
Howard Sugar (asker) Feb 15, 2013:
While the issue has been closed, I would like to add a comment. The word actually comes from a translation of the German word (das Politische) the political that was coined by Schmitt 1932
Howard Sugar (asker) Feb 14, 2013:
I would l ike to thank everyone for their contributions. A lot of effort was made by a lot of people to find the right answer. In the end, I ended up by using the political which was in fact my starting point. Language is a tricky thing at times. My next problems will be to render the text into something that sounds English!!
Philippa Smith Feb 10, 2013:
@Nikki Writeaway has given the link to the full text below, in the reference section and under some of our answers. If you search for "le politique" in it, you see a clearer picture emerging, which for me points to the broadest possible sense of the term, whereas I feel "body politic" to be a little narrower, more "technical" if you like. For instance, "Dans la conception aristotélicienne, le politique est ainsi nature et la violence contre nature." (which could be translated in the same vein as the quote I give in my answer from an article on "the political"), I feel calls for "the political", along the lines of "the social" "the natural" etc.
writeaway Feb 10, 2013:
@Nikki http://www.cairn.info/revue-raisons-politiques-2003-1-page-3... is where you can find any extract you wish.....
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Feb 10, 2013:
@Howard Just come to the discussion section and noted that there is a message specifically addressed to me. So, to answer : "LA politique" is "politics" or "policy" depending on context. "LE politique" reads as a more erudite word for "politics", tending towards "political realm"; I like that suggestion. However, today, with more thought on the matter, I wonder if it does not actually mean "body politic". I would like to see the term in an extract of the original, with more background on the subject.
ViBe Feb 10, 2013:
la socialité de l’homme vs. la Nature =commonweal? Describing the phenomenon of violence, the author draws a clear distinction / dichotomy / opposition between la socialité de l’homme (social medium / socium / society), on the one hand, and la Physique/ la Nature on the other; or the NATURAL/pristine/animal in man and the SOCIAL/civilized/cultural in him that must prevail in modern society based on rule of law. In this context “le politique” seems to be used interchangeably with, and in lieu of, the former, that is “la socialité de l’homme” or, in other words, “social medium” / “socium” / “society.”

Bottom line: If my reasoning makes some sense here, then I'd consider translating "le politique" with one of the following English words:
- commonweal
- social norms
- political culture...

See: "Rational Lives: Norms and Values in Politics and Society" by D. Chong
http://www.amazon.com/Rational-Lives-Politics-American-Polit...
Salih YILDIRIM Feb 10, 2013:
Difference in using "la" or "le" article in front of the Word "politique": I would say that when used as a noun, "le" is used and "la" when it is used as a part of an adjectival phrase.
Howard Sugar (asker) Feb 10, 2013:
As per the requests for additional examples, I am attaching two consequitive paragraphs. "Cette première configuration n’oppose pas les Anciens aux Modernes mais les réunit au contraire dans une même référence au droit naturel. Les Anciens et les Modernes fondent, on le sait, la socialité de l’homme sur l’idée de nature. Or le principe premier du droit naturel est de poser l’exclusion radicale entre la phénoménalité violente et la rationalité politique, la politique se définissant comme refoulement de la violence et assomption d’un pouvoir tout entier compris comme autorité.
6
Dans la conception aristotélicienne, le politique est ainsi nature et la violence contre nature. Selon les indications de la Physique, est violent l’acte qui contraint une chose ou un individu à une motion qui ne peut être conçue comme actualisant sa nature. Il ne peut exister de violence politique dans une conception qui fait de l’homme un animal politique." As you can see (I was tempted to write "comme nous avons vu a toute à l'heure" as my professors used to explain!) there are obviously two different words le politique and la politique used in the space of a few sentences.
ViBe Feb 9, 2013:
In other words, the contract between the hoi polloi (plebs) and aristoi (the elite), right? With the latter having MONOPOLY on VIOLENCE. Quod erat demonstrandum!
Philippa Smith Feb 9, 2013:
I'd say that "polity" is too narrow, and that the context here (going by the sentences quoted) is very broad - the political as a fundamental component of society.
writeaway Feb 9, 2013:
The article seems to use both le AND la politique.
hmmmmmmm

Have you noticed a real difference between the two???
Howard Sugar (asker) Feb 9, 2013:
Polity is usually meant as a collective way of saying the state, understoods as the consunsus of the collectivity to the political pwer and the cohesion of the classes
writeaway Feb 9, 2013:
it depends on the context in your article le politique is used a lot to mean politicians.........
ViBe Feb 9, 2013:
polity? While waiitng for Mrs. Despaigne's answer, let's play with the enigmatic word "polity" and see if it fits in...
Howard Sugar (asker) Feb 9, 2013:
Note to Mrs. Despaigne. If le politique is politics. What then is la politique (also usually translated as politics)
Howard Sugar (asker) Feb 9, 2013:
The title of the article is something like "Ce que le politique dit de la violence" So I am not sure how I could use "political aspect " as the answer

Proposed translations

+5
2 hrs
Selected

the political / the political realm

Your problem is obviously finding an alternative to "politics", which would be the choice in a less specialised context. I think you could happily use "the political" here, or "the political realm" if you are really not at ease with it, to refer to the overarching political context, translated into concrete form in society by "politics".
I came across this document that I think is useful:
http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/etzioni/A312.pdf
One (short) example of its discussion of the political:

"I proceed next to examine key attributes of the political realm, including its limits.
The political is not the social
Ever since Aristotle advanced the thesis that human beings are by nature political animals, there has been a tendency to fold the social into the political."
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway : http://www.cairn.info/revue-raisons-politiques-2003-1-page-3... /it's heavy duty stuff.....
39 mins
Ta Writeaway! Interesting to see the article. /It is, and hard to translate unless you happen to be political philosopher as well as translator...:-)
agree katsy
3 hrs
Thanks Katsy!
agree Branka Ramadanovic
7 hrs
Thanks Branka!
agree Victoria Britten
14 hrs
Thanks Victoira!
agree CristianaC
1 day 4 hrs
Thanks Cristianac!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I think that in the end I will have to mix "the political" with something like the political sphere occasionally. "
6 mins

political aspect

Oxford French-English Dictionary
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13 mins

engagement

This seems to broadly fit with the idea of "participating in society" implied in the given definition, although there may be a more precise term used in political philosophy.
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36 mins

the politician

According to your context, could they be talking about politicians?

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+1
1 hr

politics

The French express this in the singular whereas the British would express this collectively, in the plural.

http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/politique

II.− Substantif
A.− gén. masc., au sing. ou au plur.
1. Personne qui s'occupe de la conduite des affaires de l'État :
13. Combien de politiques, spéculatifs ou pratiques, ont vu les choses humaines comme Machiavel et comme Hobbes, parce qu'ils voyaient l'homme psychologique à travers le même verre qu'eux! Voilà Rousseau à son tour, le politique du sentiment. Il sent dans son cœur que l'homme est né libre ou doit être libre, et il le voit partout dans les fers. Il veut chercher s'il n'y a pas quelque forme d'administration légitime, c'est-à-dire propre à restituer cette liberté naturelle de l'homme. P. LEROUX, Humanité,1840, p. 131.
a) Vx. Personne qui possède l'art de conduire les affaires de l'État, la science du gouvernement. Tacite et Machiavel, les plus grands politiques qui aient jamais existé (DESMOULINSds Vx Cordelier,1793-94, p. 48).
b) [Souvent avec nuance iron.] Personne qui se prétend compétente en ce qui concerne la conduite des affaires de l'État et tout ce qui s'y rapporte. Ils font la paix! s'écrièrent les politiques du village (MÉRIMÉE, Colomba,1840, p. 111).[Ma femme de chambre] tenait cette belle nouvelle des politiques de l'auberge (MmeDE CHATEAUBR., Mém. et lettres,1847, p. 86):
14. ... Plassans demeura tout surpris, le soir de l'élection, d'avoir eu une volonté si unanime (...). Lespolitiques du cercle du commerce se regardaient d'un air perplexe, en hommes que la victoire confond. ZOLA,Conquête Plassans,1874, p. 1153.
c) Usuel. Personne qui joue un rôle actif dans la conduite des affaires de l'État. Faire entendre les protestations généreuses dont les politiques autrefois faisaient leur gloire (CLEMENCEAU, Vers réparation,1899, p. 114).Les politiques savent que leur fonction est de comprendre toutes les sociétés organisées dans un état (Philos., Relig., 1957, p. 44-11):
15. Toute politique tend à traiter les hommes comme des choses (...). Le politique se représente ces unités comme des éléments arithmétiques puisqu'il se propose d'en disposer. Même l'intention sincère de laisser à ces individus le plus de liberté possible et de leur offrir à chacun quelque part du pouvoir, conduit à leur imposer, en quelque manière, ces avantages dont il arrive parfois qu'ils ne veulent guère, et parfois qu'ils pâtissent indirectement. Arts et litt.,1936, p. 40-2.
[P. oppos. à une autre catégorie] Aussi Goethe dit-il dans sa pièce que les deux personnages qu'il met en contraste, le politique et le poëte, sont les deux moitiés d'un homme (STAËL, Allemagne,t. 3, 1810, p. 59).Comme dans tout dialogue entre le stratège et le politique, le stratège ne peut que faire valoir les limites de ses possibilités et recommander les formules qui lui paraissent les plus favorables, mais c'est le politique qui décide en fonction d'une gamme de données plus étendues (BEAUFRE, Dissuasion et strat.,1964, p. 200).De par la division du travail, les idéologues sont rarement les hommes d'action − les politiques − et d'ailleurs, ils constituent un groupe qui a ses intérêts et ses aspirations dans la classe, ou partiellement hors d'elle (Traité sociol.,1968, p. 367).
− [Avec qualificatif (surtout grand)] Fin, mauvais politique. Bonaparte ne rêva pas un duché du Rhin, comme l'avaient fait quelques politiques médiocres dans la longue lutte de la maison de France contre la maison d'Autriche (HUGO,Rhin,1842, p. 123).Nous n'avons pas ce qu'ont eu les monarchies absolues, de grands politiques comme Richelieu, même comme Dubois, gouvernant l'État ou par la force ou par la ruse, et maîtres d'agir dans toute l'étendue de leurs desseins (REYBAUD, J. Paturot,1842, p. 381):
16. Je ne dis rien d'un monde où les grands politiques parlent paix quand ils songent guerre; ordre quand ils songent massacre; et noblesse, dévouement ou chevalerie, quand il songent Dieu sait quoi. PAULHAN, Fleurs Tarbes,1941, p. 22.
♦ P. anal., au masc. ou au fém. Personne qui mène ses affaires avec les autres de telle ou telle manière. « Ma voix m'a bien servi, pensa M. Leuwen. Cela est juste de ton et expressif. » Mais M. Leuwen n'était pas fait, après tout, pour être un grand politique, un Talleyrand, un ambassadeur auprès de personnages graves (STENDHAL, L. Leuwen,t. 3, 1835, p. 301).Ah! C'est un grand politique! Sa femme l'assure contre Don Camille et Don Camille l'assure contre moi (CLAUDEL, Soulier,1944, 1repart., 2ejournée, 6, p. 1016):
17. Que je puisse agacer maman en me baignant ici... ne me serait jamais venu à l'idée... Et c'est vrai! Tu es comme tante Léo, une grande politique. COCTEAU, Parents,1938, II, 1, p. 228.
2. Personne dont l'action se situe essentiellement dans le domaine des affaires de l'État et de tout ce qui s'y rapporte.
a) HIST., gén. au plur. Membre d'un parti qui, à l'époque de la Ligue, prétendait ne s'occuper que des affaires de l'État et non de la question religieuse. La noblesse logée en divers quartiers de la ville étant égorgée avec lespolitiques et les suspects, on crieroit : vive la messe! tous les bons catholiques prendroient les armes, et le même jour les villes de la Ligue imiteroient Paris (CHATEAUBR., Ét. ou Disc. hist.,t. 4, 1831, p. 309).Au dix-septième siècle la tentative de Saint-Cyran et des Arnauld fut un second acte, une reprise à un étage moindre, mais aussi suivie et prononcée, d'organisation religieuse pour la classe moyenne élevée, la classe parlementaire, celle qui, sous la Ligue, était plus ou moins du parti des politiques (SAINTE-BEUVE, Port-Royal, t. 1, 1840, p. 16).Par Henri IV, l'homme aux deux religions, la France allait retrouver la paix intérieure. Par ce prince politique, l'heure des « politiques », l'heure du tiers parti, approchait (BAINVILLE, Hist. Fr.,t. 1, 1924, p. 186).
b) Personne dont l'action se détermine en fonction de critères touchant à la conduite des affaires de l'État. Enfin, les « politiques », convaincus que notre cause était celle de la France et la servant de leur mieux, ne s'empêchaient pas cependant de penser à leur carrière, de manœuvrer pour se faire valoir suivant les normes de leur profession, de considérer l'avenir sous l'angle de l'élection, des fonctions, du pouvoir, qu'il pourrait un jour leur offrir (DE GAULLE,Mém. guerre,1956, p. 153):
18. Seul, avec un petit groupe d'amis, Jaurès a fait entendre l'appel de générosité, a formulé l'argument de raison. Comme il est chef, on a haussé les épaules, et les « politiques » ont fait preuve d'indulgence en se bornant à empêcher le parti de se compromettre dans cette « sentimentalité ». CLEMENCEAU, Iniquité,1899, p. 261.
c) Partisan de négociations par opposition à une action armée (le plus souvent) ou motivée par des raisons catégorielles. Des chances de pourparlers existaient; pendant un court moment, du côté F.L.N., les « politiques » ont paru avoir le pas sur les militaires, ou du moins ceux-ci laissaient-ils le champ libre à ceux-là (MAURIAC, Nouv. Bloc-Notes,1961, p. 18).
d) P. ell. Prisonnier politique. V. supra I B 1 b β
B.− masc. sing. à valeur de neutre. Tout ce qui a trait à la conduite des affaires de l'État. La civilisation moderne semble bien se caractériser par un régime de séparation du politique et du religieux (Philos., Relig., 1957, p. 46-9).À la naissance des institutions révolutionnaires, le politique commande le technique (BELORGEY, Gouvern. et admin. Fr.,1967, p. 29).Il faut que l'homme fasse peu à peu le dur effort de comprendre que le social, le juridique et le politique sont dépendants de l'économique, c'est-à-dire des conditions matérielles de la vie en société (FOURASTIÉ, Gd espoir du XXes.,1969, p. 325).


http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/politics

politics
Pronunciation: /ˈpɒlɪtɪks/

Translate politics | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of politics
plural noun
1 [usually treated as singular] the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power:
the party quickly gained influence in French politics
thereafter he dropped out of active politics
the activities of governments concerning the political relations between states:
in the conduct of global politics, economic status must be backed by military capacity
the academic study of government and the state:
[as modifier]:
a politics lecturer
a particular set of political beliefs or principles:
people do not buy their paper purely for its politics
(often the politics of) the principles relating to or inherent in a sphere or activity, especially when concerned with power and status:
the politics of gender
2activities aimed at improving someone’s status or increasing power within an organization:
yet another discussion of office politics and personalities
Phrases

play politics

act for political or personal gain rather than from principle:
he railed against them for playing politics with the police department
politics in other Oxford dictionaries

Definition of politics in the dictionary US English



Peer comment(s):

agree ViBe : Great minds think alike!
5 mins
agree Bertrand Leduc
1 hr
neutral writeaway : if it was LA politique....../since you seem to enjoy looooong references, have a look here: http://www.cairn.info/revue-raisons-politiques-2003-1-page-3...
1 hr
You're right; I should have done some editing! Check out B of the CNRTL source. Your reference can be read to confirm my suggestion and to corroborate my CNRTL reference. It is an older and perhaps less modern usage; "LA politique" is more commonly used.
disagree Victoria Britten : According to the definitions you quote, LE politique is an actual person, certainly not "politics"
15 hrs
The definition which I should have isolated is B in the CNRTL source. I failed to edit my French source correctly.
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2 hrs

the political sphere

My feeling is that "le politique" stands for those people indulging in politics or else, which is probably more likely, all the matters which are dealt with by politicians' action.
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+2
1 hr

politics

as in "la vie politique" ou "le système politique."



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-02-09 16:43:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

polity
Example sentence:

Politics and Violence...

Peer comment(s):

agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Snap! And posted at the same time!!!
1 min
:) Merci
agree Bertrand Leduc
1 hr
Thx
neutral writeaway : if it was LA politique...... /well, isn't that the problem?? Here it's LE politique which means politics isn't correct (that's LA politique).
1 hr
it would be "policy," among other things... / I understand "politics" as political life of a nation in general, while "policy," among other things, is a specific line/deal/course of action its political elite pursues...
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19 hrs

the body politic

In my previous answer, I was perfectly aware that this was not "LA politique" which can be translated in general political contexts by "politics" or "policy", depending on the particular meaning. I am perfectly aware that neither of those normal meanings apply here. My clumsy editing of the French source did nothing to assist clarity. I wished to refer to the final definition under B in that source.

"Politics" as in "things political relating to the body politic" is what was meant. (I hope I am not digging myself into a hole here)! I like "political realm" but believe it is still a little removed from the more erudite "LE politique".

If "le politique" is synonymous with "corps-état" here, then might "body politic" not be a suitable solution in English ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_politic#cite_note-4

http://definitions.uslegal.com/b/body-politic/

"A body politic is a collective body of a nation or State regarded as politically organized or as exercising political functions. A body politic hence must possess some attribute of sovereignty and exercise some sovereign power of the State, either through constitutional or legislative grant, which it exercises for the common benefit of all within its geographical boundaries."


http://www.c-s-p.org/Flyers/9781847182722-sample.pdf

Check out pages 19-20.



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Note added at 19 hrs (2013-02-10 09:24:58 GMT)
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I'd like to see more of the original. A couple of sentences before and a couple following one or two points where the term appears.
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19 hrs

policy

I think this is a near faux ami.

It is the difference between a government policy and a political stance.
Peer comment(s):

neutral writeaway : not here. see the entire doc in the ref below. can you quote a passage from it that backs your answer???
1 hr
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Reference comments

32 mins
Reference:

Your question intrigued me and I started searching for an answer. Unfortunately, I was not able to find the term you need, but I came across this interesting article.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Philippa Smith : Very relevant and useful article!
2 hrs
thank you Philippa!
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2 hrs
Reference:

Here's the article

Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Philippa Smith : Good to see the full context.
31 mins
imo really vital in this case. it's far too involved a text for terms to be taken out of context.
agree AllegroTrans : OK excellent, why not suggest a translation now or agree with one already posted?
55 mins
maybe because I'm too busy with my own work and this isn't one of those easy-peasy Kudoz questions so a lot of time and thought is needed. And I don't see your answer anywhere........
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1 day 6 hrs
Reference:

ref. on use of "the political"

http://journals.uvic.ca/index.php/peninsula/article/view/687...

in the bibliography also several works on "the political"
Note from asker:
I actually read a few articles using the political but they only referred to works by French writers and the word wouldn't work with the title. But thank you very much for the article.
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