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Inanspruchnahme
Feb 13, 2013 13:37
11 yrs ago
German term

Keime

German to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Wagner
Dier Zug dünkt mich jetzt nicht unwichtig: gab mir ihn damals auch nur die Musik und der gewohnte Opernanblick ein, so lag doch hier schon im Keime ein wichtiges Moment meiner ganzen Entwicklung kundgegeben.“

Can anyone help with how Keime would be translated? The meaning of the entire sentence is on my lips but i can't seem to express it well.

This stuff did not appear unimportant to me: it gave me at that time only the music and the familiar sight of the opera, so here it became manifested in me, this important moment of my entire development.
Proposed translations (English)
3 nascent beginnings
2 +5 yet here lay the key/seed
5 In nucleo
4 -7 Green nature

Discussion

Charles Milton Ling Feb 14, 2013:
Not horror! I like your version, Wendy.
Wendy Streitparth Feb 14, 2013:
I know its simplifying the text somewhat, but:

yet this provided the initial impulse for my overall development

(Can't wait for the screams of horror!)
Charles Milton Ling Feb 14, 2013:
As I said, "trait'" is a rather precarious translation; I am happy to surrender the copyright to you!
British Diana Feb 14, 2013:
There you are, Charles. I suggested "trait" in jest (see "green nature"), but perhaps it's not so far off after all?
Charles Milton Ling Feb 14, 2013:
Zug I am tempted to translate it with "trait". Of course, I may be ridiculously wrong.
Johanna Timm, PhD Feb 13, 2013:
"Moment" ist hier ein Neutrum :das Moment=Faktor, Umstand, Aspekt (im Ggs zu der Moment= Augenblick, Zeitpunkt)
Zug= hier: m.M. n= Idee; (eigtl. der "Hang" zu etwas, eine Eigenart)
philgoddard Feb 13, 2013:
pj-ffm, Andrew, Charles I just wanted to thank you for making me laugh three times.
Inga Richardson (X) (asker) Feb 13, 2013:
Thanks Diana, I'm going to have another stab at it, I think the rewording will help as the previous one is throwing me off.
British Diana Feb 13, 2013:
attempt: I think we have an inversion with concessive meaning in this sentence, which could be rewritten thus: "Obgleich damals auch nur die Musik und der gewohnte Opernanblick ihn (den Zug) mir eingab(en), so lag doch hier schon im Keime.....“
Jem (dat) etwas(acc) eingeben means, as Brigitte says, to put sth into someone's head.
So, although it was only the the music and the view of the opera which made me think of the "Zug", nevertheless this (experience) laid the seed for...
Charles Milton Ling Feb 13, 2013:
Just translating the "Keim" is not enough here. ("Seed" is unobjectionable, of course.) This is the kind of sentence on which I would have to spend quite a bit of time ("kundgegeben" requires a bit of thought, too.)
freekfluweel Feb 13, 2013:
Google perhaps googling: "project gutenberg wagner" will get you on your way...
freekfluweel Feb 13, 2013:
Dieser Zug ist, in seiner allgemeinsten Bedeutung, die Sehnsucht nach Ruhe aus Stürmen des Lebens. In der heitern hellenischen Welt treffen wir ihn in den Irrfahrten des Odysseus und in seiner Sehnsucht nach der Heimath, Haus, Herd und – Weib, dem wirklich Erreichbaren und endlich Erreichten des bürgerfreudigen Sohnes des alten Hellas.

(what comes next, is not so pretty)

http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/buch/840/4
Inga Richardson (X) (asker) Feb 13, 2013:
Ok Diana, I seem to have misunderstood the first bit. So what does the gab mir ein actually refer to?
Wendy Streitparth Feb 13, 2013:
As I understand it "Zug" is meant in the sense of development/move, i.e. the fact that he changed the ending of the story.
British Diana Feb 13, 2013:
No! Die Musik is not accusative, but part of the subject! "It gave me" would imply that you think "Der Zug" is the subject, which is equally wrong.
Inga Richardson (X) (asker) Feb 13, 2013:
So yes i think Zug is stuff, though I know there' wil be probably a better word for that. I'm not even 100% sure the German is correct, I'm confused by the two accusative cases, the "ihn" and the "Musik"
Inga Richardson (X) (asker) Feb 13, 2013:
Hi Phil, yes it should be Dieser and I've accidently put it in the past tense, thanks for pointing that out!
It might just be easier to write in the whole context:
Mich reizte an dem Gozzi’schen Märchen nicht bloß die aufgefundene Fähigkeit zu einem Operntexte, sondern der Stoff selbst sprach mich lebhaft an. ... Die in einen Stein verwandelte Fee wird durch des Geliebten sehnsüchtigen Gesang entzaubert, und dieser Geliebte dafür vom Feenkönig mit ihr in die unsterbliche Wonne der Feenwelt selbst aufgenommen.
BrigitteHilgner Feb 13, 2013:
Kontext?? What is meant by "Zug"? You misunderstand the first part of the sentence: the music and the common/general (??) sight of operas (watching operas??) lead me to/made me think of "ihn" (whatever this is - provided the grammar of the sentence is correct - no guarantee - "ihn" should mean "Zug"). "im Keime" = the initial beginning.
philgoddard Feb 13, 2013:
Context What does "dier Zug" refer to? Does it really mean "this stuff"? What does it say before this?
Also, you've changed the whole meaning of the sentence by changing "dünkt mir jetzt" to the past tense.

Proposed translations

16 hrs
Selected

nascent beginnings

Some other ideas:

"...offered an important glimpse into my eventual development in its nascent beginnings"
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks Michael"
+5
7 mins

yet here lay the key/seed

for starters
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : I think that by trying to get the full context and correct the errors in Inga's translation, we've lost sight of the original question.
1 hr
Thanks Phil. This would have been food for several questions.
agree British Diana
1 hr
Thanks Diana
agree anasta12
3 hrs
Thank you, Anasta
agree KingsleyPartner
6 hrs
Thank you Kingsley Partner
agree Wolf Draeger : Seed, germ.
1 day 7 hrs
Thanks, Wolf
Something went wrong...
-7
3 hrs

Green nature

Although no body can predicate what the great Composer Wagner had meant by these lines comprising" a deep, special expression when traveling on such train, I just tried to translate it as follows;

"Now, it seems to me that traveling by train is important because it has given me adequate time to listen to the music and feel the scenery of opera when passing through green nature which filled my heart with the most joyful moments I had ever experienced."
Peer comment(s):
disagree pj-ffm : Oh. My. God. Please tell me you posted this by mistake and you were actually answering a different question... Please?
44 mins
disagree Kim Metzger : Deep, special expression?
45 mins
disagree Lancashireman : Listening on his iPod?
46 mins
disagree Charles Milton Ling : This makes me want to try my hand at Turkish.
2 hrs
disagree Coqueiro : systematisches Raten, s. 3.1: http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=kudoz_a...
2 hrs
disagree Cetacea : Traveling on a train?! I wish I could assume you're joking...
2 hrs
disagree British Diana : Warum denken wir uns noch ein paar Varianten aus? Zug= puff; Zug=swig; Zug=draught; Zug=tension; Zug=procession; Zug=feature; Zug=trait. Hier sitzt jemand im falschen Zug!
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
6 days

In nucleo

Not very poetic, but literal.
Something went wrong...
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