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But wait until you and the author have really thrashed out what it is he actually wants, and make this absolutely clear in the new question (remembering to put the term in the right place!). That way, you'll be in a better position to come to a decision and grade the question - which is only fair to all those who are willing to help you. Personally, I still think you need to stand your ground with him, and explain that he'll get a far better title after you've translated the text. In fact, by that stage, you probably won't need any of our help, as it'll be so obvious...
I had not indicated at 14h26 that I was addressing myself to Anne, the Asker... sorry that I had not made that clear! Of course you were addressing your comments to other translators. Anne the ASker's post immediately beofre mine states : I have decided to submit them all to the author, explain them and let him pick the one we'll use. " I think you will see what I mean now!
I really appreciate your help. I know this is not a regular question and I don't have the feeling I'm wasting my time. I've managed to work an awful lot today -as every day apart from that. I don't want to waste anybody's time and I appreciate Helen's new suggestions. Yes, I will open a new question. Don't be surprised.
perhaps you should start again with a new question once you have a clearer idea of what you require of us...? A bit of fun is fine, but I'm not sure that I have the time to enter into playing games with the author, if that's what you're suggesting...? As Polyglot says, it looks as though you're going to have to be firm with this client, or you'll end up wasting an awful lot of time - and possibly ours as well. I'd be quite happy to start again once the requirements are clearer. But I don't see that it can be done as a continuation of this particular question.
Though his English in not perfect, he has enough notions to appreciate and want to discuss ideas. He made suggestions himself. Besides, I learned today that he was the illustrator. What he now says is that he wants is to keep the "sound alike" idea. I'd rather have a "solution sonore à un jeu de mots évident"" he says. One more thing: it is a collection of 100 captions, all portraits. As it turns out, it is "100 incongrus au bataillon" so it has to be 100 something plural. He gave an example, which was "100 fous dans la foule" to give me the idea. Nothing military at all, he added. I understand what you all say about trying to find a title before you've seen the text but to him, it's part of the game. Feel free to play it with me or not.
Nikki, I was not offering this choice to a client, but to a fellow translator, which is a very different thing! I agree that a client would usually blanch at the idea of having to select among translations (especially if she or he didn't know the target language). We need to remember that, if possible, Anne would like a play on words in English, to preserve the humor of the "inconnu au bataillon" expression turning into "incongru." It is, of course, not always possible to find equivalent puns (or spoonerisms) in the target language, but why not try? Many offerings so far translate either the "normal" term ("inconnu") OR the one substituted for it (as a pun? as a spoonerism?). Depending on the tone and context of the BD, there are possibilities for committing a similar pun in English, for once.
It is never a good idea to decide on a title before you have translated the body of the text (unless as a working title) and even less if you haven't even seen the text. Frankly I would have told the client politely but firmly and probably on the phone that he or she was putting the cart before the horse.
Just a quick word, you might meet with a strange reaction on the part of your client if you send him a bunch of suggestions and leave him to choose. Your rendering of the final text will determine which title fits best. After more than 15 years translating professionally, I could name more than one client who would throw a wobbly if I asked them to chose. There are more subtle ways of doing it and simply explaining that you have applied your mind to the task but that you prefer to wait for the final text etc, unless he has some particular reason for having to have them right now, of course!
Carol : absolutely. Nothing else is really useful as there is apparently no particular reason to set a title now. Titles often come at the end anyway, and indeed, are sometimes a zillion light years away from the original version.
Thanks a lot for your help. I know this was an unusual question and pretty difficult to answer. You comments and advice are precious too. You will understand that I cannot chose a best answer. I have decided to submit them all to the author, explain them and let him pick the one we'll use. I will definatly let you know.
Bourth (X)
Yup
23:06 May 6, 2009
It's all about context. Does "incongru" refer to a person, an event, etc.?
but Carol's advice is really sensible. It would be so easy to get the wrong end of the stick or miss the point altogether (if that is not mixing metaphors).
Since you're going to translate the texts at a later stage, why are you looking for the title now? By all means, choose a working (interim) title, but I invariably find that this gets changed at least once as the book progresses, and you discover more about the essence of the book and the way it's developing. And for various cultural reasons, the best TT titles often bear little resemblance to the ST title - you see that everywhere with books, films... But whatever you decide to do, you'll have plenty of time between now and completing the collection to change your mind, especially to discard any contrived title that looks clever at 1st sight but makes you cringe after a very short while - and this is often the danger when translating puns. More important to have something that reflects what the collection is about, and perhaps the tone of it (eg, lighthearted?). But these you can't ascertain until you're familiar with the collection....
For the term and who knows, it may work as an answer... No, seriously though, I go alon gwith the feeling that it is absolutely necessary to have more context. It is dangerous to translate titles of anything without having the subject matter to hand. I'm sur your client will understand. Guess work is near on professional suicide here!
Kashew, I don't know much more than what I already
18:20 May 6, 2009
told you. I will later translate these texts but I don't have them yet. Just one more clue: The author is Berhart or Bernard Clavère. Googling him might give a clue.
I think that there are so many good possibilities which have been suggested but the context is really essential here... You need to find out more IMO. Good luck.
This is for a series of short stories, comic book style Incongru au Bataillon 100 portraits illustrés par B. sur des textes acides et surréalistes de J.T. That's all I know. It's the title of the series.
Can't "incongru" mean that one is "out of place" in some social circle? au bataillon = group (unless it's referring to a military battle)
C'est très, très à difficile à dire.
I hope this helps.
MatthewLaSon Local time: 23:56 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 30
Notes to answerer
Asker: out of place and unknown and wierd, I'd say... I thought I might be able to come up with something using hoard
36 mins confidence:
a play on words
anomalous, or a fake in the crowd
Explanation: "Anomalous" for the entire expression (rather than "anonymous"). "A fake in the crowd" for "a face in the crowd." This is fun! Will try to come up with more.
Anne McConnell United States Local time: 20:56 Works in field Native speaker of: English
Explanation: Really no more than a stab. Is it something you really have to translate? Is it the title by which the comics will be known to the EN-speaking world or just an explanation in brackets to assist understanding of the FR title?
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 48 mins (2009-05-06 17:23:52 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
What about 'AWOL' with its military meaning - can also be used for someone who is 'out there' (slightly mad), too?
Helen Shiner United Kingdom Local time: 04:56 Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: I guess the author would like it to be known in the En-speaking world. The job is for a young publisher. It's not in brackets, it't the actual title.
