| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Always late payments - I don't understand it! Thread poster: Annett Hieber
|
|---|
| I must be lucky | Jul 10, 2009 |
Most of my clients, German-based agencies, pay promptly. I invoice towards the end of the calendar month; some pay within a week or two, most by the end of the month, one or two, I must admit, tend to pay a few days after the start of the next month, but not much.
I think once in the last year I had to remind someone, and the response was one of horror, coupled with immediate payment.
The other exception was once late last year and twice ten years ago, when I had simply bad clients w... See more Most of my clients, German-based agencies, pay promptly. I invoice towards the end of the calendar month; some pay within a week or two, most by the end of the month, one or two, I must admit, tend to pay a few days after the start of the next month, but not much.
I think once in the last year I had to remind someone, and the response was one of horror, coupled with immediate payment.
The other exception was once late last year and twice ten years ago, when I had simply bad clients who didn't pay at all - one went bankrupt, the others were crooks.
I'd started to get the impression that this was normal in the translation trade, but what some of you say makes me start to doubt that! ▲ Collapse
| | | | gqushair
Spain
Local time: 13:30
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Client relationship / down payment / private vs. public sectors | Jul 10, 2009 |
Hello Annett and everyone else,
Excellent discussion. Glad to know I'm not the only one.
1. These are delicate issues, and one important thing to remember, which applies in my work, is that the translation client may not be the person that actually pays. For example, a client who is a doctor at a public hospital may have little control over how their department budget is spent. So resolving these issues o... See more Hello Annett and everyone else,
Excellent discussion. Glad to know I'm not the only one.
1. These are delicate issues, and one important thing to remember, which applies in my work, is that the translation client may not be the person that actually pays. For example, a client who is a doctor at a public hospital may have little control over how their department budget is spent. So resolving these issues often enatils dealing with an intermediary, such as the accounting/billing department. Sending a polite message to the client to request contact info for their accounting dept. (or whomever) may enable you to handle the issue without compromosing your relationship with the actual client or without bothering them.
2. I agree with Galia about the down payment: I typically request 20% down with a minimum of 100 euros, unless it's a special situation, first time client, really tiny project etc. Some clients have actually paid me out of their pockets, and then been reimbursed by their institute later. They volunteered to do so: I would not ask someone to do this. This of course happens with long-term clients with whom I have a very close relationship. Another option is to offer a discount for full payment up front. For instance, for a project that would normally cost 1000 euros, you could offer the client a rate of 900 euros if they pay everything up front. Again, depends on your relationship...
3. My experience in Catalonia does not correlate with Acevila- noni's comment on Spain: the payment schedule here varies widely from private to public sectors. Most public universities, hospitals and institutes have a schedule of 60-90 days, and often have odd stipulations (e.g. "We pay every 29th"; meaning that you won't get paid in February or if the 29th falls on a Sunday, and will have to wait another month. etc.). There is a hospital here in Barcelona that pays at 120 days from the bill receival date! The private sector is usually much faster (30 days). I don't know about Germany or your clients, though.
Good luck to everyone! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Coincidence? | Jul 10, 2009 |
Alex Wilding wrote:
Most of my clients, German-based agencies, pay promptly.
....
I'd started to get the impression that this was normal in the translation trade, but what some of you say makes me start to doubt that!
My only German client is my fastest agency payer by far - within a few days of receiving my invoice. The only clients who pay faster are outsourcing fellow translators.
| | | | Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 13:30
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Some agencies even pay after 60 days, but I don't work with these.
My favorite job ads are those tiny projects, for example 5 words projects, that say:
$10 total project payment, to be issued after 45 days
They seemingly have some serious financial issues having to wait 45 days to send a $10 payment.
| | |
|
|
|
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:30
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Try working with Italian agencies | Jul 10, 2009 |
it's the norm, in Italy, to pay 90 (that's NINETY) days after the end of the month in which the invoice was issued.
Nobody yet has mentioned the real reason why people delay payment for so long: they like to keep the money in their own bank account for as long as possible, collecting interest.
[Edited at 2009-07-10 14:51 GMT]
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 13:30
French to German
+ ...
| Paying after 30 days ... | Jul 11, 2009 |
would cause cash flow problems is what one agency just told me. I just to like working for this agency, although they never paid without me having to send a little reminder.
Then they asked me to lower my rates because of "the crisis", then they changed their terms of payment without prior notification. I just found out via their website when requesting a new payment.
The last payment request I made would have been due almost 3 weeks ago - e-mails to the accounting department remaind... See more would cause cash flow problems is what one agency just told me. I just to like working for this agency, although they never paid without me having to send a little reminder.
Then they asked me to lower my rates because of "the crisis", then they changed their terms of payment without prior notification. I just found out via their website when requesting a new payment.
The last payment request I made would have been due almost 3 weeks ago - e-mails to the accounting department remainded unanswered, though. Still, they kept asking me to do more jobs for them. I told them that I am not prepared to do any more work for them before my last invoice is paid and that since their new terms of payment are rather unfavourable, I would give preference to agencies with more favourable terms.
I got a lengthy reply back, stating that paying sooner would cause cash flow problems and that their terms were still "favourable" in comparison with other agencies. Well, not really ...
Besides, I don't think that you should run an agency if you can't pay your translator after 30 days. And my landlord, the tax office, my health insurance, my energy supplier etc. are not in the least interested in my cash flow problems and expect to be paid on time ...
However, some agencies seem to think that translators should be grateful for any sort of work, no matter how low the rate or how late the payment might be. I try to steer clear of those agencies and I think that is what everybody should be doing. Unfortunately, they always seem to find people who are new to the business and are willing to accept anything just to get started.
As far as Italian agencies go, mine pays me 14 days end of month. ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Rawlins
Spain
Local time: 13:30
Spanish to English
+ ...
| The quality indicator | Jul 11, 2009 |
I see the speed with which an individual or company pays their debts as the key indicator of quality.
A business that pays quickly is well organised and respects its suppliers. A business that pays slowly is fundamentally troubled or simply abusive.
If your clients pay slowly, then you are associating with the wrong type of organisations. Drop them as quickly as you can - before you get really burnt.
[Edited at 2009-07-11 11:12 GMT]
| | | | Jacques DP
Switzerland
Local time: 13:30
English to French
| You should agree on terms | Jul 11, 2009 |
Okay, you mentally take this into account and wait. You believe after putting so much effort into a project the customer will appreciate that by paying on time, i.e. not according to the payment conditions I state on my invoices, but at least after 30 days.
One small note about the original post: I think it is an error to state payment conditions which are different from the agency conditions. You should agree on terms, and then have the agreed terms reflected on your invoice.
| | |
|
|
|
Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 13:30
English to German
+ ...
| Perfect analysis! | Jul 11, 2009 |
John Rawlins wrote:
I see the speed with which an individual or company pays their debts as the key indicator of quality.
A business that pays quickly is well organised and respects its suppliers. A business that pays slowly is fundamentally troubled or simply abusive.
If your clients pay slowly, then you are associating with the wrong type of organisations. Drop them as quickly as you can - before you get really burnt.
[Edited at 2009-07-11 11:12 GMT]
I couldn't agree more, John!!!
| | | | Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:30
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
Tom in London wrote:
it's the norm, in Italy, to pay 90 (that's NINETY) days after the end of the month in which the invoice was issued.
Nobody yet has mentioned the real reason why people delay payment for so long: they like to keep the money in their own bank account for as long as possible, collecting interest.
[Edited at 2009-07-10 14:51 GMT]
Six months+ for some of my clients. Sigh...
2 years and waiting for one client - in the UK too, where standard payment terms are 30 days.
| | | | Anita du Plessis
South Africa
Local time: 13:30
Member (2008)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Mutual trust... | Jul 12, 2009 |
What happened to good old mutual trust?? I wish we could only rely on that...
I also have problems with some agencies paying me on time, but fortunately everybody so far has paid, albeit late. (Some as late as three months).
Jacques has a good point, one should agree on terms right from the start and reflect that on your invoice.
PS. : My best payer so far is an Italian company; as soon as I send the invoice hardly an hour passes and I get an e-mail informi... See more What happened to good old mutual trust?? I wish we could only rely on that...
I also have problems with some agencies paying me on time, but fortunately everybody so far has paid, albeit late. (Some as late as three months).
Jacques has a good point, one should agree on terms right from the start and reflect that on your invoice.
PS. : My best payer so far is an Italian company; as soon as I send the invoice hardly an hour passes and I get an e-mail informing me of the payment! I love working for them and do the extra mile for them, because they are also extremely friendly and precise in their directions. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 13:30
French to German
+ ...
| "Agreeing" is good... | Jul 12, 2009 |
anitadp wrote:
Jacques has a good point, one should agree on terms right from the start and reflect that on your invoice.
but basically and from my experience with agencies, they state their payment terms and all you have to say is "Yes, thanks so much" or "No, sorry won't work". It saves a lot of time for sure, but I am not certain we should talk about an agreement in such cases, at least not about a bilateral one.
[Edited at 2009-07-12 18:29 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| A closed cycle | Jul 12, 2009 |
inkweaver wrote:
However, some agencies seem to think that translators should be grateful for any sort of work, no matter how low the rate or how late the payment might be.
That's one side of the story. Being a closed cycle, as I'll try to demonstrate, it doesn't matter where you start. So one possible starting point would be a job ad posted and closed today (a Sunday):
We have a very urgent XX-YY job to do and to be delivered as soon as possible.
...
Payment 60 days after date of delivery.
Of course, no professional translator would bother to help them out, and all professional translators would wish this outsourcer didn't get one single bid, to learn a lesson.
But there are always amateurs and wannabes that rush in with their best rates.
It is natural that the level of service they get from these amateurs and wannabes should arouse some contempt for the translating profession as a whole. So this outsourcer will get the necessary assurance that all translators are a dime a dozen, to go on working under this assumption forever, thus closing the cycle.
Now and then I pick one of these jobs requiring "best rates", lower my rate some 30-40% and go for them. I don't have to brag about my past accomplishments; it's enough to show that I'm no newbie in the trade, and that I live on it. My intent is to show them - as it's likely they have never seen one - what does a professional translation look like. Maybe their end-clients will adopt that translation standard in their widespread continuous improvement efforts. Of course, I warn them that it's a one-off promo.
Last time I tried it, it didn't work, because that outsourcer was not prepared to face that professional translators tend to demand payment on the date mutually agreed at the outset. They had obviously spent the money from the COD payment they received from the end-client, and expected to stall me for months before I took some action.
I wish there were two identical sites, Proz and Amateurz, and that no translator or outsourcer were allowed to participate in both. Very strict rules would be in place to irrevocably "demote" anyone from Proz to Amateurz, so all Prozians - both translators and outsourcers - would watch their behavior.
| | | | | I agree with José | Jul 13, 2009 |
First, I only work for clients that pay on time. Second, as I found out, the agencies that immediately ask for your best rate are also going to ask for a discount on the back end, too. And they pay the slowest.
Not to mention, the translators who take the low end jobs are quick to send out mass emails to everybody they can find an email address for - threatening a class action lawsuit, a worldwide boycott of the end client's products, and media attention when they don't get paid qu... See more First, I only work for clients that pay on time. Second, as I found out, the agencies that immediately ask for your best rate are also going to ask for a discount on the back end, too. And they pay the slowest.
Not to mention, the translators who take the low end jobs are quick to send out mass emails to everybody they can find an email address for - threatening a class action lawsuit, a worldwide boycott of the end client's products, and media attention when they don't get paid quickly.
I have a few policies I stick with. If not getting paid would ruin you financially and you've never worked with this client before, don't take the job. If you don't have one or two regular clients that you are sure are going to pay every time, spread the risk. Don't spend two months on something and then go bankrupt when they don't pay.
I know, hindsight is always 20/20, right?
[Edited at 2009-07-13 06:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | markusg
Germany
Local time: 13:30
Member (2005)
Swedish to German
+ ...
| ...if you cannot trust them... | Jul 13, 2009 |
Annett Hieber wrote:
There is no complaint from the customer, so you think everything is all right, you write your invoice and wait.
Currently I have the same problem with a non-paying client I haven’t worked for before. Of course I have checked before if it was a known non-payer but this was not the case.
Payment 30 days after receipt of invoice according to their terms of payment.
Six weeks after delivery I inquired about the outstanding payment.
When I called him on the phone to inquire about the payment he said to me that „payment will be made this week unless you hear from me otherwise.“ Well, I didn’t hear anything from him and still no payment.
Actually, I don’t think it’s important whether they pay within 30, 60 or 90 days. What I think is important though is that agreements are kept.
There are a whole lot of things you can do during the time you otherwise have to spend running after these people in order to get paid.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Always late payments - I don't understand it! | Pastey | Your smart companion app
Pastey is an innovative desktop application that bridges the gap between human expertise and artificial intelligence. With intuitive keyboard shortcuts, Pastey transforms your source text into AI-powered draft translations.
Find out more » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
