Mar 27, 2021 18:34
3 yrs ago
38 viewers *
French term
United States
Quality work into English since 1981
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, Dutch to English, Danish to English, and 4 more.
ASCENDANT
French to English
Art/Literary
Journalism
Biography
(I just submitted a question about this line to Proz.com, but this is a different term than that):
I am translating an account of the meeting of Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley.
She was impressed by his lack of pretentiousness, and then it states:
"Elle qui appréciait les hommes avec un ASCENDANT était servie".
I first asked about SERVIE, but I am now asking would "ancestry" be appropriate for "ASCENDANT"?
Thank you!
RE Anderson
Chicago, IL, USA
I am translating an account of the meeting of Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley.
She was impressed by his lack of pretentiousness, and then it states:
"Elle qui appréciait les hommes avec un ASCENDANT était servie".
I first asked about SERVIE, but I am now asking would "ancestry" be appropriate for "ASCENDANT"?
Thank you!
RE Anderson
Chicago, IL, USA
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+2
4 hrs
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
French term (edited):
l'ascendant (avoir/prendre ... sur quelqu'un)
Selected
to have/take the upper hand, to be in the driving seat, to be domineering
"She who appreciated men who had the upper hand (had) got what she was (had been) looking for".
"... that the man was in the driving seat...."
"...domineering men..."
prendre/avoir l'ascendant sur : to take/have the upper hand over someone
Just a couple of idiomatic suggestions.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:43:06 GMT)
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"Avec un ascendence" = avoir/prendre l'ascendent sur quelqu'un
Not to be confused with "être l'ascendent de quelqu'un".
My reading of the context is that we are unequivocally in the first situation and that this has nothing to do with how A may be related to B.
She likes a man who takes the power, who decides. Without further context, I don't think that we can go further than that, that there is no indication that this is "contrôle" or "emprise", nothing in the context suggesting that she wanted someone who would be controling or have a hold over her. However, it is tongue in cheek with the use of "être servi". There is irony there. In other words, whe wanted someone who took the control but not necessarily someone who was "controling"; there is a difference. But... further context may end up going more explcitily down that road, but... that is not indicated here.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:56:14 GMT)
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https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/academie8/ascendant//1#:~:te...
"Il signifie aussi figurément Influence, autorité, pouvoir qu'une personne a sur l'esprit, sur la volonté d'une autre. Il a, il exerce un grand ascendant sur l'esprit de son frère. Il a pris un grand ascendant. L'ascendant du génie, de la vertu, des lumières, etc. Abuser de l'ascendant que l'on a sur quelqu'un. Usez de l'ascendant que vous avez sur lui."
https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/ascendant#:~:te...
"2. Influence dominante. ➙ autorité, empire, pouvoir."
"ASCENDANT, se dit en discours ordinaire d'une superiorité qu'un homme a sur l'esprit d'un autre qui provient d'une cause inconnuë. Pour gagner vôtre Rapporteur, employez un tel de ses amis, il a un grand ascendant sur son esprit."
"... that the man was in the driving seat...."
"...domineering men..."
prendre/avoir l'ascendant sur : to take/have the upper hand over someone
Just a couple of idiomatic suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:43:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Avec un ascendence" = avoir/prendre l'ascendent sur quelqu'un
Not to be confused with "être l'ascendent de quelqu'un".
My reading of the context is that we are unequivocally in the first situation and that this has nothing to do with how A may be related to B.
She likes a man who takes the power, who decides. Without further context, I don't think that we can go further than that, that there is no indication that this is "contrôle" or "emprise", nothing in the context suggesting that she wanted someone who would be controling or have a hold over her. However, it is tongue in cheek with the use of "être servi". There is irony there. In other words, whe wanted someone who took the control but not necessarily someone who was "controling"; there is a difference. But... further context may end up going more explcitily down that road, but... that is not indicated here.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2021-03-28 11:56:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/academie8/ascendant//1#:~:te...
"Il signifie aussi figurément Influence, autorité, pouvoir qu'une personne a sur l'esprit, sur la volonté d'une autre. Il a, il exerce un grand ascendant sur l'esprit de son frère. Il a pris un grand ascendant. L'ascendant du génie, de la vertu, des lumières, etc. Abuser de l'ascendant que l'on a sur quelqu'un. Usez de l'ascendant que vous avez sur lui."
https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/ascendant#:~:te...
"2. Influence dominante. ➙ autorité, empire, pouvoir."
"ASCENDANT, se dit en discours ordinaire d'une superiorité qu'un homme a sur l'esprit d'un autre qui provient d'une cause inconnuë. Pour gagner vôtre Rapporteur, employez un tel de ses amis, il a un grand ascendant sur son esprit."
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Conor McAuley
: Had the upper hand, but not domineering.
1 day 15 hrs
|
|
Yes. "Domineering" and to a greate extent "controlling" are terms that convey a much more intense level and lean towards "emprise" which is not mentionned here. Domineering perhaps less so?
|
|
| agree |
Cyril Tollari
: upper hand https://ichbiah.com/extraits/michael-jackson/michael-jackson...
13 days
|
| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: really a disagree for all of these as none really fit imho. And it's dominant NOT domineering that's correct here.
14 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
51 mins
David Hayes
France
France
Native in English
Works in field
France
Traductions soignées et fiables
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
very influential/powerful
Plenty of synonyms to chose from if you think 'ascendancy' is not the best choice (personally, I think ascendancy is fine too).
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Note added at 56 mins (2021-03-27 19:31:18 GMT)
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I obviously meant to write 'to choose from'
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Note added at 56 mins (2021-03-27 19:31:18 GMT)
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I obviously meant to write 'to choose from'
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I quite like "ascendency" too. "Influential" and "powerful" tends to describe an effect on a large group of people even society at large. To personalise this to th scale of the individual "have influence/power over someone" probably a better fit.
12 hrs
|
|
Fair point
|
+1
16 mins
Marco Solinas
Native in English
Works in field
Accurate, professional translations
Native in: English , Italian
Works in: Italian to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
6
commanding
"commanding men" or "authoritative men should" do it. It has to do with ascendancy, not ancestry.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2021-03-28 14:35:52 GMT)
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"men with a commanding presence" would work too.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2021-03-28 14:35:52 GMT)
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"men with a commanding presence" would work too.
1 day 4 hrs
Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
experienced and well qualified linguist
Native in: English (Variant: UK)
Works in: Spanish to English, English, Spanish, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
ascendancy
An ascendant is either an ancestor (a person from whom one is descended (forerunner) or an ascendancy, which is a condition of being dominant.
Alongside the others who describe powerful and influential characteristics, it means
'She who appreciated influential men was being attended.'
(FR: Elle qui apréciait les hommes influents était servie.'
Alongside the others who describe powerful and influential characteristics, it means
'She who appreciated influential men was being attended.'
(FR: Elle qui apréciait les hommes influents était servie.'
+1
1 day 18 hrs
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Works in field
Ireland
right word, right place. everytime
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian, Irish, UK)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
DOMINANT
I think this is the best fit. Michael HaJackson had an agebnda in marrying Lisa Marie as he wanted her to give him Presley-gene babies. Her mother thought he was manipulative and scheming and Lisa-Marie seemed to agree withthat assessment after the marriage broke up after just a couple of years.
So "controlling" could possibly be used here but I think DOMINANT is better. I would not use "ascendant" at all and "domineering" is similar to "contriolling".
Does someone actually enter into a controlling or domineering relationship? I think not. Far too negative even if the reality turns out like that.
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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2021-03-29 12:56:42 GMT)
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https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1416090/michae...
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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2021-03-29 13:03:08 GMT)
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so whole sentence,
She, who liked/preferred dominant men, got her wish (or what she was seeking)
As regards "ancestry" you could say so from Jackson's point of view as he adored Elvis so really craved "Presley-gene" children by Lisa Marie but I don't believe it was important to her. Seemingly she just wanted an authoritive male
So "controlling" could possibly be used here but I think DOMINANT is better. I would not use "ascendant" at all and "domineering" is similar to "contriolling".
Does someone actually enter into a controlling or domineering relationship? I think not. Far too negative even if the reality turns out like that.
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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2021-03-29 12:56:42 GMT)
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https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1416090/michae...
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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2021-03-29 13:03:08 GMT)
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so whole sentence,
She, who liked/preferred dominant men, got her wish (or what she was seeking)
As regards "ancestry" you could say so from Jackson's point of view as he adored Elvis so really craved "Presley-gene" children by Lisa Marie but I don't believe it was important to her. Seemingly she just wanted an authoritive male
Discussion
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascendant_(astrologie)