Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Musikschaffende

English translation:

those working in the field of music \ employed in the music industry

Added to glossary by martina1974
Jun 3, 2008 10:47
16 yrs ago
German term

Musikschaffende

German to English Art/Literary Music
Damit verändert sich für viele betroffene Musikschaffende aber nicht nur die Arbeitsweise, sondern auch der Arbeitsmarkt. Einerseits werden sie autonomer, andererseits werden ihre Leistungen aus Rationalisierungsgründen aus den etablierten Institutionen des Musiklebens tendenziell ausgelagert.

Zusammenfassend lässt sich diese Tendenz unter dem Schlagwort der flexiblen Spezialisierung, bei der die Musikschaffenden frei von unmittelbaren musikindustriellen Vorgaben werden, aber dafür umso mehr auf ihre Selbstbehauptung am freien Markt angewiesen sind.

Proposed translations

+2
12 mins
Selected

those working in the field of music employed in the music industry

I know this seems a bit "long winded" but I think it is required to diferentiate between amateur and professional status.
Peer comment(s):

agree Louise Mawbey
50 mins
thank you Louise
agree TonyTK : ... or this one // Either one, with a slight preference for the second version - and I also like Marie's suggestion.
1 hr
thanks - what one Tony? - - I see, I am a bit slow! Yes I like Marie's suggestion too, but not all workers are "professional"
agree Rebecca Garber : employed in the music industry
1 hr
thank you Rebecca I agree, the first offering is a bit 'prosaic'
agree oa_xxx (X) : I prefer the first one!dont think musicians etc would say they are employed in the music industry,sounds (to me) like someone working for MTV or something!Also agree not to add professional,not necessary and not necessarily true.
3 hrs
thank you Orla, as a matter of interest "in the music industry has been used by many musicians to describe their place in society.--Thanks for the extra note.
disagree DonM : For me, these formulations are too broad, catching e.g. A&R men, marketing executives, even cleaning staff (in second proposal) in their nets. I think the passage quoted by the asker is referring to composers and musicians (and, at a stretch, producers).
6 hrs
Thank you for taking the time to read my attempt. You said it yourself the passage refers to musicians, therefore the idea is implicit in my phrasing. Thanks once again
neutral EVA LIEBIG-RADABAUGH : professionals involved in the process of creating music
1 day 8 hrs
Thank you Eva,
disagree Gert Sass (M.A.) : For the very obvious reasons outlined by DonM, plus: Why be so bombastic about it?
2 days 9 hrs
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks a lot!"
5 mins

Musician

A musician is a person who plays or writes music
Peer comment(s):

agree Barbara Wiebking : Vielleicht "professional musicians"?
45 mins
Thank you
agree Thomas Bollmann
1 hr
Thanks
neutral John Dale D.D. : pedantic note- musicians play music; composers write music.
3 hrs
Right, but I would say the author meant not only the composers, but also those who perform music, so I think "musician" (as a general term) would be a better choice.
disagree EVA LIEBIG-RADABAUGH : does not include everyone involved in the process of creating music
1 day 8 hrs
Yes, it does. See: http://www.princetonreview.com/cte/profiles/dayInLife.asp?ca... What would be your suggestion than?
disagree Gert Sass (M.A.) : Musician would simply be Musiker in German. This is not what is meant here, i. e. a set of (creative) roles (including e. g. lyricists) in music business./Wiebitte? Please see my suggestion. And read those pages more carefully before posting the link...
2 days 10 hrs
"Musician" has a wider meaning than just Musiker. See: http://www.princetonreview.com/cte/profiles/dayInLife.asp?ca... What would you propose?
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-1
6 mins

musicians / creative musicians

for starters
Peer comment(s):

disagree EVA LIEBIG-RADABAUGH : see above
1 day 8 hrs
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+1
42 mins

Music Industry Professionals

I don't think it is just musicians that are meant but anyone involved in making music
Peer comment(s):

agree TonyTK : ... but without the caps.
6 mins
agree John Dale D.D. : I think you are right Marie that is why I wrote "employed in the music industry" to include both professional and non-professional workers.
7 mins
agree Regina Freitag
4 hrs
disagree DonM : For the same reasons as given above for John's answer.
5 hrs
disagree Gert Sass (M.A.) : Not “just musicians”, e. g. lyricists, too, but then again not just “anyone involved in making music” either, IMO, as DonM has pointed out before.
2 days 8 hrs
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8 hrs

music maker

Yes, its me again! Just somehow now curious about this one, funny how such simple terms can often be tricky. I dont agree with DonM's disagree but he does have a point. If you can tell from the context that this just refers to musicians and composers then maybe say just that - if it does seem to imply producers, songwriters (not the same as a composer), sound, etc then I'd go for one of John's or Marie's suggestions.
There is of course 'music maker', but I dunno, does it sound odd in this context? Maybe have a look at the examples.

"The BBC Performing Arts Fund helps aspiring music-makers and performers looking for a way to get ahead."
Example sentence:

Budding film and music makers are up to scratch

Pineapster is an on-line community for music makers in the East Midlands.

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8 hrs

music professionals

I think that DonM's objections to "music industry professionals" are valid. Leaving the "industry" away at least sounds more like "musician" than like "A&R".

Just my non-native 2 cents, though.

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2 days 8 hrs

artists[/creatives*] (and publishers/labels)

*[/creatives] als Alternative zu “artists”, wenn es der Kontext erfordert (z. B. zur Verdeutlichung, dass es nicht nur um „artist“ im Sinne von „Star“, „Showact“, den alle kennen, geht, sondern um die Kreativkräfte/Künstler allgemein, die an einer Produktion beteiligt sind)

So einfach: „Artists[/creatives] “ im engeren und „artists[/creatives] and publishers“ im weiteren Sinne, so wie es dein Text jeweils erfordert. Für eine Entscheidung hierüber wäre der Absatz vor der von dir zitierten Passage interessant, auf den sich "Damit“ (das 1. Wort dieser Passage) bezieht. Hieraus ließe sich dann folgern, ob der Begriff im Sinne deines Autors/Textes außer den eigentlichen Kreativkräften im ’Biz auch die Verleger mit einschließt oder nicht, sprich, ob von dem dort geschilderten Umstand nur Künstler oder auch Verleger oder Labels betroffen sind. Im allgemeinen Sprachgebrauch ist das jedenfalls nicht eindeutig geregelt.

Siehe z. B.
Spreeblick » Offener Brief an Musikschaffende
Ein offener Brief an Musiker, Text-Autoren, Komponisten, Musik-Verlage und Labels, im Folgenden unter dem etwas holprigen Begriff „Musikschaffende“ ...
www.spreeblick.com/2006/06/19/offener-brief-an-musikschaffe... - 314k -


„Musician“ oder einen der gewundeneren Vorschläge würde ich aus mehreren Gründen nicht verwenden. Davon die wichtigsten:
- Wie du schon aus dem Beispiel erkennen kannst, können durchaus auch „Text-Autoren“ bzw. Textdichter (engl. lyricists; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyricists) gemeint sein. Diese gehören eindeutig zu den Kreativen, müssen aber gar keine Musiker im engeren Sinne sein (Instrumentalisten, Komponisten, Arrangeure etc. mit/ohne Ausbildung)
- Wären nur die Musiker i. e. S. gemeint (wie etwa bei der im Kulturbetrieb gängigen Umschreibung „Tonkünstler“), müsste gar nicht so sperrig von Musikschaffenden die Rede sein
- Keinen der barockeren Vorschläge kann ich mir in einem Text vorstellen, in dem der gesuchte Begriff mehrmals erscheint. Das klänge dann doch nach einem Verfasser, dem gerade ein elementares Wort entfallen ist
- In einem Text über das Musikgeschäft reicht es im Allgemeinen aus, von „artists“ zu sprechen, um die Kreativkräfte (inkl. lyricists) bspw. von den Angestellten der A&R-Abteilung oder gar deren SekretärInnen zu unterscheiden
- Diskussionen der Art, wie „professionell“ ein Vertreter dieser Spezies sein Geschäft betreibt (oder ob er gar seine Steuern als Musiker oder doch eher als Dachdecker bezahlt), halte ich in deinem Zshg. für verzichtbar

So, ich hoffe, das war einigermaßen verständlich … ;-)


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Note added at 3 days12 hrs (2008-06-06 23:43:00 GMT)
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@Orla:
Thanks especially for your remark on what expression would really be used in running text, which shows me that you got my most essential point, as I hope the asker will, in her own interest. As far as the quoted passage goes, “Institutionen des Musiklebens” and “musikindustrielle Vorgaben” seem to sufficiently point towards music business rather than fine arts, theater, the silver screen, or whatever else one might generally associate with artistry, to prevent a misunderstanding IMO.

I do admit, however, that the longer I think about it (still lacking further context), I might give more preference to “creatives” rather than “artists” for the sole reason that the public (in contrast to the industry itself) might not perceive, e. g., lyricists and producers as “artists” (although they are artists just as well, and often with much better professional qualification and experience), simply because their names rarely become as publicly known as those of, e. g., stage-performing artists.


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Note added at 3 days13 hrs (2008-06-06 23:50:17 GMT)
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(P. S.: the longer expression would then read "creatives/artists in music business")
Peer comment(s):

neutral oa_xxx (X) : youre right about musicians but artists can only be used if context allows it which none of us know, BUT if it does, it would be a GOOD solution&is common in running text when it is clear from the context/title that only music is implied,not other arts
23 hrs
Thank you Orla, and see my added note above.
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