| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Agencies using ChatGPT to translate languages they don't understand Thread poster: Tom in London
|
|---|
Jordan Smyth
United Kingdom
Persian (Farsi) to English
+ ...
| Yup, I tested ChatGPT in one of my language pairs and its...not great | Dec 26, 2024 |
Tom in London wrote:
GIven this level of wildly inaccurate information being provided by Chat GPT. on subjects that are well known and can be researched using easily accessible sources, I would not be confident that I would trust ChatGPT to accurately translate anything very sophisticated or off the beaten track.
In the case of this discussion, I knew in advance what the correct answers were. But what if I didn't?
[Edited at 2024-12-26 19:01 GMT]
Yes, I think you're spot on here. It's a lottery. You cannot trust it and it even makes it clear on the ChatGPT website that it makes mistakes. It's not designed to replace human translators.
It is very variable for translation. It adds "details" that were not in the source text. And it mis-translates the source text as well, in particular if things are colloquialisms, mis-spelled, or difficult sentences with complex grammar. Maybe it is better for some sorts of texts than others and some languages, but again, you'd be taking a big risk in trusting it.
And since this PM would be checking my "work" using....ChatGPT... it's a race to the bottom.
The main driver in this case is cost savings, as paying me this very low rate to do this "work" and have the risk all put on a freelancer rather than their company if it goes belly up is way cheaper than paying a professional translator for that language (they exist, there are lots of them) and then doing some professional copy editing of their work to polish it etc.
I'm so grateful for everyone's input honestly, thanks for taking the time to give your opinions.
| | | |
Tom in London wrote:
expressisverbis wrote:
Highlighting the importance of human expertise is crucial, and we need to fight back by ensuring that our profession is respected!
So, I totally agree with you!
I predict that in 2025 there will be some horrible disaster and after an Inquiry, the cause will be traced back to an inaccurate translation made by AI.
Seriously. I just hope too many people don't get hurt.
After that we will all be back in business - big time! [Edited at 2024-12-26 19:23 GMT]
I hope so, but this is like me predicting today's match Man City vs Everton, win for City after many lost games, but Haland missed the penalty.
So, now I can predict that Pep Guardiola will be sacked in 2025.
And talking about disasters, did you see this? It's some high-tech failure involved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbW2UgmjJUA
| | | | | Scammers use AI | Dec 26, 2024 |
This website has listed 880 AI incidents > https://incidentdatabase.ai/summaries/incidents/
The #880 is “Scammers Reportedly Using Deepfakes of Health Experts and Public Figures in Australia to Sell Health Supplements and Give Harmful Advice”.
It seems that the scammer PM isn't the only one using AI.
| | | | Zea_Mays 
Italy
Local time: 11:30
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Jordan Smyth wrote:
Zea_Mays wrote:
Jordan Smyth wrote:
My question was really, is this common now? Are translators expected to do this work? I understand he has told his client that in his professional opinion ChatGPT produces a better translation than a "poor" human translator.
No, it is not common and will not be. Is this a real translation agency? (Are they putting the source in the free version of ChatGPT, btw?)
We can rather expect a process like the following in some cases:
- Machine translation of text A ---> Translation A
- AI editing of translation A ---> Translation B
- Human proofreading and final editing of translation B ---> Final translation C (with the editor understanding the source language)
What should not be forgotten here, however, is the high cost of using LLMs (the "AI" used here, e.g. ChatGPT etc.) in the long run.
Yes it is a real agency although it is a very small one, they also provide editing services.
Yes they want me to put the source in the free version of ChatGPT. Apparently I would need to do this a small chunk at a time, then cut and paste the output into Word. The document has extensive footnotes and I would also have to "translate" these the same way.
They claim that if you use the "temporary chat" feature of the free version then it is not training using the material and it is therefore "confidential". I don't know if that is true.
The free version only allows you to use GPT4 for a short time before switching to GPT3, I believe, I don't know if there's a difference.
It's a moot point because I am not going to do this, I am just interested in others' experiences, I also felt quite alone with this and wanted to ask opinions. So thank you all.
Sorry, but the whole story sounds a bit unlikely, starting with the $0.06 per word (it's cheaper to have the stuff 'translated' by Indian or Egyptian agencies). And why using LLMs instead of MT engines? If all this is true, it is best not to work with this "agency" that "also provides editing services".
| | |
|
|
|
Jordan Smyth
United Kingdom
Persian (Farsi) to English
+ ...
| it's true...I wish it wasn't | Dec 27, 2024 |
Zea_Mays wrote:
Sorry, but the whole story sounds a bit unlikely, starting with the $0.06 per word (it's cheaper to have the stuff 'translated' by Indian or Egyptian agencies). And why using LLMs instead of MT engines? If all this is true, it is best not to work with this "agency" that "also provides editing services".
Well, I wish it was not true but it is. And it is actually helpful to me to know that their request is so outrageous that it looks so fishy. Yes, the rate is bad. That is their new "AI rate". They pay more for human translation but they are trying to switch to AI translation to save money.
I would like to give more details about them but I am a bit wary because if I do it will probably out them. I prefer not to do that, because right now they owe me outstanding invoices (for legitimate translation work...). They do pay on time.
So, yes that is the rate they are offering me to do an AI "translation" of a professional level manuscript intended for publication. I guess the reason they want to use me to do this job is because they think the source language is close to one of my language pairs (it is sort of close but certainly not close enough for a professional translation). And outsourcing it to an Egyptian agency would be more risky for them and their client might not accept it. I've no idea what they have told their client btw. The client is actually a surprisingly reputable organization (that has nothing to do with translation, they have some works that need translating to be published) and that makes me suspicious about what this PM has told them is happening here.
This is one PM at a small agency who has decided that this is a good way to work. They think they are being a smart businessperson who is a pioneer in using new tech
But yes they do provide editing services and now AI editing (I don't do the latter because that really is poor quality) of various documents written by non-native speakers who want to be published in English. So clients who want this service can have their work translated and often then also edited and formatted, or just edited or just translated.
The human editing work is legitimate although the quality of the writing can be pretty low.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:30
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Jordan - for providing so much honest and comprehensive information.
| | | |
I refuse any proofreading, editing etc. of a machine-translated text.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 11:30
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Jordan Smyth wrote:
In some cases the human translators who produced the translations of these works into English are not actually professional translators or native English speakers, but they have good English and are native speakers of the source languages. Their translations require editing to read properly in English.
And I have no problem with this workflow.
More recently the PM has translated some parts of the source documents himself using ChatGPT because he believes that it "produces better English" than the non professional translators.
Which, technically speaking, is probably true...
However of course he has zero idea if this "better English" is accurate. However he is convinced that ChatGPT is an amazing technology that produces better translations than a human translator and this is what he has told his client.
But: no. This is entirely unprofessional. There has to be processes in place to ensure that the AI system's hallucinations are kept to a reasonable minimum, and that process usually involves a human. Sure, you can ask multiple AI systems to check each other's work, which would reduce the risk of mistranslations, but it won't eliminate mistranslations quite as effectively as using a human would.
And as for your original point: asking a translator who is not professionally proficient in the source language do the checking is not sufficient. Languages that are "similar" are similar only superficially. The fact that you and someone from that source language can have a conversation when deciding which type of pizza to order does not make you qualified to translate from that other language.
I would go so far as to say that if the client is AWARE of the process and has been warned strenuously about the dire risks that such a procedure pose, then it would be acceptable to do this. But clearly the PM has told the client that he's getting a proper translation... and he isn't.
Added:
This morning, Facebook suggested a memory from a decade ago. I posted a story about my family visiting a theme park. In the Afrikaans, I referred to the theme park as a merry-go-round theme park (the Afrikaans word for "merry-go-round" literally means "crazy mill"). Google Translate translated that into "recklessly wild theme park" in Dutch. ChatGPT simply ignored "merry-go-round" and translated it as "fairy-themed theme park", because ChatGPT knows that that particular theme park has a fairy theme. So, Google Translate did attempt to translate it, but mistranslated; ChatGPT on the other hand did not translate: it just made something up that made sense.
| | |
|
|
|
Jordan Smyth
United Kingdom
Persian (Farsi) to English
+ ...
| i agree with you Samuel | Dec 29, 2024 |
[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:
Jordan Smyth wrote:
However of course he has zero idea if this "better English" is accurate. However he is convinced that ChatGPT is an amazing technology that produces better translations than a human translator and this is what he has told his client.
But: no. This is entirely unprofessional. There has to be processes in place to ensure that the AI system's hallucinations are kept to a reasonable minimum, and that process usually involves a human. Sure, you can ask multiple AI systems to check each other's work, which would reduce the risk of mistranslations, but it won't eliminate mistranslations quite as effectively as using a human would.
And as for your original point: asking a translator who is not professionally proficient in the source language do the checking is not sufficient. Languages that are "similar" are similar only superficially. The fact that you and someone from that source language can have a conversation when deciding which type of pizza to order does not make you qualified to translate from that other language.
I would go so far as to say that if the client is AWARE of the process and has been warned strenuously about the dire risks that such a procedure pose, then it would be acceptable to do this. But clearly the PM has told the client that he's getting a proper translation... and he isn't.
Yes, I completely agree and am well aware of this. I have made this clear to the PM and the agency, or tried to, but I think that this has just not been understood. I would say that I could read a newspaper in this related language and get the gist of most of what is going on, but I for sure cannot translate the newspaper and definitely not professionally. I could not read a novel in this language, I'd have to sit there with a dictionary.
So in this case, ChatGPT would produce some text in English and I could go over it word for word against the source with a dictionary and I would definitely run the very real risk of errors being in the "translation" it produces especially for a project that is the length of a thesis or book. I would also not understand nuances in that language. It would be unreasonable to look up lots and lots of words and try to see if ChatGPT had gotten it right (something that was suggested I do).
Yes based on what I have been told I am under the impression that the end-user client organization has been told by this PM that they are getting a "brilliant solution" that is a proper translation of this complex and very long text written by a person (the end-user client's client I guess) who wants her work to be PUBLISHED for others to read and critique. But they would not be getting that at all.
So basically, I think this is madness. I am venting on here because I am being put under lots of pressure to do this (which I am not going to give in to, but it is annoying) because they have sold this as a "done deal" to their client. I know that AI has eaten into the industry so I was wondering if this is now common, but it seems that it isn't - thankfully.
| | | | | Lack of Confidentiality. | Dec 30, 2024 |
Chat GPT has HUGE privacy and confidentiality issues. Just google Chat GPT Privacy and you will see countless news and articles detailing the risks.
I would never use it for any kind of translation, any version of it. The claims that they delete their chats I believe are unsubstantiated. They might delete them from their memory in terms of the actual conversation, but they might be using it to train their models and perhaps even show parts of it to other users. Exposing any kind of client ... See more Chat GPT has HUGE privacy and confidentiality issues. Just google Chat GPT Privacy and you will see countless news and articles detailing the risks.
I would never use it for any kind of translation, any version of it. The claims that they delete their chats I believe are unsubstantiated. They might delete them from their memory in terms of the actual conversation, but they might be using it to train their models and perhaps even show parts of it to other users. Exposing any kind of client information to it is, IMO, not recommended AT ALL.
My two cents. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jordan Smyth
United Kingdom
Persian (Farsi) to English
+ ...
| maybe so but | Dec 30, 2024 |
bkking wrote:
Chat GPT has HUGE privacy and confidentiality issues. Just google Chat GPT Privacy and you will see countless news and articles detailing the risks.
I would never use it for any kind of translation, any version of it. The claims that they delete their chats I believe are unsubstantiated. They might delete them from their memory in terms of the actual conversation, but they might be using it to train their models and perhaps even show parts of it to other users. Exposing any kind of client information to it is, IMO, not recommended AT ALL.
My two cents.
The agency claim that if you use the "temporary chat" function there are no privacy issues. I don't know if that is true but the main issue here is that I do not have the required level of proficiency in the language they want me to translate from. So regardless, I could not do this job.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 11:30
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| very strange | Dec 30, 2024 |
A "reputable organization" relying on a dodgy "agency" where a "PM" decides to use free LMMs to translate critical content for publishing and to have a non-expert in the source language doing the editing, paying 0.06 USD for this (what dodgy agencies pay such rates? You're lucky if you get 0.02 USD.)... This would mean to gamble away the agency's and the client's future and reputation.
It reminds some previous stories here where various worst case scenarios coincidentally happened together... See more A "reputable organization" relying on a dodgy "agency" where a "PM" decides to use free LMMs to translate critical content for publishing and to have a non-expert in the source language doing the editing, paying 0.06 USD for this (what dodgy agencies pay such rates? You're lucky if you get 0.02 USD.)... This would mean to gamble away the agency's and the client's future and reputation.
It reminds some previous stories here where various worst case scenarios coincidentally happened together.
[Bearbeitet am 2024-12-30 16:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| Copyright also | Dec 30, 2024 |
Jordan Smyth wrote:
bkking wrote:
Chat GPT has HUGE privacy and confidentiality issues. Just google Chat GPT Privacy and you will see countless news and articles detailing the risks.
I would never use it for any kind of translation, any version of it. The claims that they delete their chats I believe are unsubstantiated. They might delete them from their memory in terms of the actual conversation, but they might be using it to train their models and perhaps even show parts of it to other users. Exposing any kind of client information to it is, IMO, not recommended AT ALL.
My two cents.
The agency claim that if you use the "temporary chat" function there are no privacy issues. I don't know if that is true but the main issue here is that I do not have the required level of proficiency in the language they want me to translate from. So regardless, I could not do this job.
How do they know? They can't just claim that to the client without serious proof.
Also, copyright infringements should be taken into account, since a translation made by AI loses all copyrights and becomes free to use for everybody, leading to privacy issues.
So, the way this agency is behaving isn't just unprofessional; they're making false statements and lying to the client.
It seems to me that isn't just a scammer PM, but the whole agency could be scamming its clients.
| | | | Jordan Smyth
United Kingdom
Persian (Farsi) to English
+ ...
| well they are not really dodgy except for this | Dec 30, 2024 |
Zea_Mays wrote:
A "reputable organization" relying on a dodgy "agency" where a "PM" decides to use free LMMs to translate critical content for publishing and to have a non-expert in the source language doing the editing, paying 0.06 USD for this (what dodgy agencies pay such rates? You're lucky if you get 0.02 USD.)... This would mean to gamble away the agency's and the client's future and reputation.
It reminds some previous stories here where various worst case scenarios coincidentally happened together.
[Bearbeitet am 2024-12-30 16:03 GMT]
They are not really a "dodgy agency" and I can't give more details about why or why they are working with this client without making it super easy to figure out who they are. I'd rather risk you thinking this is a weird story than getting into trouble if I out them...
The company has been getting super excited about AI and has been trying very hard to leverage it for editing and translation, offering clients AI translations and AI copyediting services at much cheaper rates. They are flying the AI flag hard. The PM got it into his head that this is a great way to do translations for cheaper, and that AI does a "better" translation (because the output reads like beautiful English) than a non-professional translator (output is a bit clunky). He believes that I am able to do this specific job using ChatGPT. Actually he has zero idea if I'd be using the free version or not as they have not even asked me. I have informed them that ChatGPT is very problematic but no, he knows better I guess.
I have honestly no idea how they convinced their client this is a good move, I assume the client thinks the PM is a translation professional because they have a very fancy job title at a "language services" company, if they have lied about my language ability or not I don't know. I hope not! They have some sales background and are persuasive. There are reports of some big publishing companies using AI to translate "commercial" fiction now so maybe the client thinks this is not too weird/its the future. The issue I have here is that I don't know the source language remotely well enough to know if the ChatGPT translation is accurate. So I can't accept the job.
BTW the PM does not think that this work is MPTE or whatever, they think this is actually TRANSLATION work and that cutting and pasting from ChatGPT constitutes "translation" so the rate they are offering is their "AI translation" rate, which they offer as package that in this case includes the cutting and pasting of a book long text into ChatGPT, full copyediting of the output, highly technical terminology checking, and of course checking the machine translation against the source text, and then formatting the entire text including all footnotes to a specific publishing format (think like Turabian or something).
| | | | Jordan Smyth
United Kingdom
Persian (Farsi) to English
+ ...
| yikes, i didn't know that | Dec 30, 2024 |
Maria Laura Curzi wrote:
Jordan Smyth wrote:
bkking wrote:
Chat GPT has HUGE privacy and confidentiality issues. Just google Chat GPT Privacy and you will see countless news and articles detailing the risks.
I would never use it for any kind of translation, any version of it. The claims that they delete their chats I believe are unsubstantiated. They might delete them from their memory in terms of the actual conversation, but they might be using it to train their models and perhaps even show parts of it to other users. Exposing any kind of client information to it is, IMO, not recommended AT ALL.
My two cents.
The agency claim that if you use the "temporary chat" function there are no privacy issues. I don't know if that is true but the main issue here is that I do not have the required level of proficiency in the language they want me to translate from. So regardless, I could not do this job.
How do they know? They can't just claim that to the client without serious proof.
Also, copyright infringements should be taken into account, since a translation made by AI loses all copyrights and becomes free to use for everybody, leading to privacy issues.
So, the way this agency is behaving isn't just unprofessional; they're making false statements and lying to the client.
It seems to me that isn't just a scammer PM, but the whole agency could be scamming its clients.
Yikes, I didn't know that about AI translation losing copyright. That's really bad. I don't know what they tell their clients so maybe they do tell them this. I was told that the Temporary Chat thing is the workaround so perhaps they are not telling their clients this.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Agencies using ChatGPT to translate languages they don't understand | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
