| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | The bottom of the translation market Thread poster: Jeff Whittaker
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AlisaIWW
United States
Russian to English
+ ...
true, you did not, and I didn't mean to imply that you did.
| | | | Niraja Nanjundan (X) 
Local time: 11:57
German to English
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Maybe it's not a rock-bottom feeder, but at its best, a low-end outsourcer.
....this may be true. Still, I think that writing a report on the state of the translation industry is a much more constructive way of spending one's time than wasting energy abusing people from developing countries in the ProZ.com forums Maybe we should all write one and compare notes
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Niraja Nanjundan wrote: José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Maybe it's not a rock-bottom feeder, but at its best, a low-end outsourcer. ....this may be true. Still, I think that writing a report on the state of the translation industry is a much more constructive way of spending one's time than wasting energy abusing people from developing countries in the ProZ.com forums Maybe we should all write one and compare notes
Do you mean 'educating' people from developing countries in the ProZ forums?
| | | | Niraja Nanjundan (X)
Local time: 11:57
German to English
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| We should control it at least here, on ProZ.com | Oct 14, 2009 |
I understand that these job offers were not published on ProZ.com, but here too such job offers often appear. I think it's high time this site controlled it somehow, for the sake of the business, for the sake of translators, for the sake of end clients, and finally for the sake of this site's weight.
I suggest the following:
1) Add an option on the profiles, that will allow translators to choose not to receive notifications on job postings that suggest 1) less than the... See more I understand that these job offers were not published on ProZ.com, but here too such job offers often appear. I think it's high time this site controlled it somehow, for the sake of the business, for the sake of translators, for the sake of end clients, and finally for the sake of this site's weight.
I suggest the following:
1) Add an option on the profiles, that will allow translators to choose not to receive notifications on job postings that suggest 1) less than the average ProZ.com community rate for the pair; 2) less than the translator's rates indicated on his/her profile; or 3) less than $$$.
2) For job posters, make the "rates" field mandatory for "non-potential" jobs (if it isn't), and as a final step, on the job posting form, before the outsourcer confirms the posting, display a message showing the percentage of professionals, who will not be notified about this job posting, because the suggested rate is low; and showing a rate scale (at what rate what percent of professionals will be notified).
3) Include on the outsourcer's Blue Board page the average rate suggested by this outsourcer in job postings. ▲ Collapse
| | | | BirgitBerlin
Germany
Local time: 08:27
English to German
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| I get such offers frequently | Oct 14, 2009 |
I get such low-rate offers frequently from India these days, it used to be China a few years ago, but they seemed to have stopped.
I don't know why they are targeting people in the Western hemisphere, they MUST know that the cost of living here is higher than in their own countries.
What I do these days is return a standard E-Mail with the cost of living here in Germany, listing only basics such as rent, health insurance, food and the basic rate of tax.
And I expl... See more I get such low-rate offers frequently from India these days, it used to be China a few years ago, but they seemed to have stopped.
I don't know why they are targeting people in the Western hemisphere, they MUST know that the cost of living here is higher than in their own countries.
What I do these days is return a standard E-Mail with the cost of living here in Germany, listing only basics such as rent, health insurance, food and the basic rate of tax.
And I explain that due to that I simply cannot afford to work at their rates.
I sometimes get understanding e-mail responses.
I am not working for the fun of it, or because I don't know what to do with my time, I work because I need to earn a living. And this is what these agencies from developing countries should be aware of, when they offer such rates outside their own country. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Cost of living vs. standards of life | Oct 14, 2009 |
BirgitBerlin wrote:
I don't know why they are targeting people in the Western hemisphere, they MUST know that the cost of living here is higher than in their own countries.
It's a common mistake to think that cost of living is higher in developed countries. Statistics show just figures, but never reflects the real life. I have lived in both developed and developing countries, and I can say for sure: cost of living is much higher in developing countries. But cost of life is really low.
What you pay for once, we pay again and again, and still never get what we need. What you pay officially, we have to pay mostly unofficially, and still never get what we need.
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 08:27
English to German
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| €1.000 for 75 m2 in Munich in an average location | Oct 14, 2009 |
Henrik Pipoyan wrote:
Statistics show just figures, but never reflects the real life.
Nor do generalizations...
I am talking from personal experience.
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| Two types of markets | Oct 14, 2009 |
I find the posting reasonable. There are local markets and prices, and there are international markets and prices. This should be basics for any "Translation 101" course.
An example: The average Mexican rate for an EN-ES translation is 200 pesos per page, roughly the equivalent of 6 USD cents per source word. Companies whose business is done solely in Mexico will usually pay this rate and not more.
Now, the average international rate for EN-ES translations is around 10-12 USD cents per source word. Companies looking for translators (and quality, of course) on the web, are normally willing to pay something closer to this rates.
So for Mexican translators, it makes sense to have two marketing strategies: one for local clients, and another for international clients. I know that translators in other Latin American countries work in the same way, so it seems only logical if people in some Asian countries do it too, and I do not see anything wrong with this practice. It is quoting according to the market.
However, when one of these translators has enough international clients to completely fill up their daily hours of work, it becomes evident that he/she will eventually stop working for the local market (unless he/she has specific reasons to do so). This is also why some translators in these countries prefer to focus all their marketing efforts towards the international market, as the possibilities of making twice the money for the same time of work invested are considerably higher.
IMHO, having different rates according to the different markets is a wise strategy. Trying to compete with rates lower than those of any given market is a kill-yourself-in-the-long-run strategy.
[Edited at 2009-10-14 12:13 GMT]
| | | | | I don't think it would work this way - other options | Oct 14, 2009 |
Henrik Pipoyan wrote:
I suggest the following:
1) Add an option on the profiles, that will allow translators to choose not to receive notifications on job postings that suggest 1) less than the average ProZ.com community rate for the pair; 2) less than the translator's rates indicated on his/her profile; or 3) less than $$$.
This assumes that the buyer sets the price, something exclusive to the translation market, always beats me why. All too often, the client (regardless of being direct or an agency) doesn't know how much a translation actually costs.
I'd rather put a device on Proz's job posting screen that, upon language pair selection, will inform the client on the average rate set by Prozians working this pair on their profiles.
In order to make sure this figure is up-to-date, I'd suggest Proz gave a few Kudoz/Browniz to every Prozian who confirmed/updated their rates (even if not visible on their profile) every, say, 3 or 6 months. This would add value to the Proz features.
Henrik Pipoyan wrote:
2) For job posters, make the "rates" field mandatory for "non-potential" jobs (if it isn't), and as a final step, on the job posting form, before the outsourcer confirms the posting, display a message showing the percentage of professionals, who will not be notified about this job posting, because the suggested rate is low; and showing a rate scale (at what rate what percent of professionals will be notified).
Mandatory rates on job postings won't help if the client has no clue on what a professional capable of doing it (whatever it is) would charge.
Henrik Pipoyan wrote:
3) Include on the outsourcer's Blue Board page the average rate suggested by this outsourcer in job postings.
This assumes that translation work is a commodity, which is very far from reality. A "good" rate for translating a simple enrollment form might be ridiculously low if applied to the translation of novel medical procedures in brain surgery with laser.
I think that the BlueBoard should be wholly redesigned, adding a 1-5 scoring device for things like rates, communication, and on-time payment, while keeping the 200-char space for other comments. I know at least one Proz "competitor" that does something similar. Their name (can't mention it here) has something to do with coffee. Worth benchmarking on this.
| | | | Niraja Nanjundan (X)
Local time: 11:57
German to English
IMHO, having different rates according to the different markets is a wise strategy
....but the problem is that I find the rates offered by most Indian translation agencies too low even by Indian standards! I do work for a couple of direct clients in India and the rate I charge them is different to what I would charge European clients. Something that is hardly ever mentioned in these discussions on prices though, is how rates should actually be determined by quality, and I think European clients should pay me the same as they pay European translators if they expect the same quality from me.
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Niraja Nanjundan wrote:
Something that is hardly ever mentioned in these discussions on prices though, is how rates should actually be determined by quality, and I think European clients should pay me the same as they pay European translators if they expect the same quality from me.
Yes, you are absolutely right about that, and this is a point I make to any European customer of mine whom I refer to a competent Indian colleague. But it doesn't help them, of course, that Indian agencies like the one I quoted above undermine the image and price expectations for Indian translators.
I took a look at your background (education, residence in Austria, etc.). An offer of 5 cents a word from a European client would be worse than an insult and rates about triple that probably reasonable. From agencies. If you can live like a queen on that (which I doubt, because many things are not cheaper I'm told), that's none of my business.
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if we stop attracting attention towards low rates every 5 minutes, with pointless threads, the perception that they are the norm won't be so emphatically re-enforced...
| | | | blomguib (X)
Local time: 03:27
English to Flemish
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| agree with Giovanni | Oct 14, 2009 |
just ignore them....I don´t have time to respond to them and to write huge entries in threads that don´t solve anything....
Good luck to you all!
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 08:27
French to German
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| Psychological error, IMO | Oct 14, 2009 |
blomguib wrote:
just ignore them....I don´t have time to respond to them and to write huge entries in threads that don´t solve anything....
Good luck to you all!
Ignoring a malaise has never solved it, although I agree that there should be only one super-tera thread for the whole industry on this topic.
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