| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Insist on the rates you want Thread poster: Karin Adamczyk (X)
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Karin Adamczyk (X) 
Canada
Local time: 22:52
French to English
TOPIC STARTER
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 21:52, uldis wrote:
and die from starvation. Dear Karin, not all of us live in the prosperous countries, (though all who replied above, obviously do) and I (an Agency, too), am not to blame, if clients in this country to an Agecy offers price you\'d die laughing if I\'ll tell you.
I know that things are different in other countries, but my comments are still valid. The ra... See more Quote:
On 2003-04-29 21:52, uldis wrote:
and die from starvation. Dear Karin, not all of us live in the prosperous countries, (though all who replied above, obviously do) and I (an Agency, too), am not to blame, if clients in this country to an Agecy offers price you\'d die laughing if I\'ll tell you.
I know that things are different in other countries, but my comments are still valid. The rate I mentioned was an example for my country, but the same principle applies wherever you are. If a standard rate in your country is .03 [insert currency], will you accept 0.003 for a rush job?
I also know that many translators do not have the luxury of insisting on their rates, but as I mentioned in my later posting, if enough of us who can insist do, things are bound to change.
Take care,
Karin ▲ Collapse
| | | | Will Matter
United States
Local time: 19:52
English
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My tongue-in-cheek suggestion per Karin/Jane is: Those who can DO and those who can\'t HIRE US.
| | | | PaulaMac (X)
French to English
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\"Less is More? Not with translation rates!\"
How about Less really is Less.
| | | | Monika Coulson
Local time: 20:52
Member (2001)
English to Albanian
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SITE LOCALIZER
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| I agree with Karin! Don't give in to "pressure!" | Apr 30, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 22:35, kadamczyk wrote:
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 21:52, uldis wrote:
and die from starvation. Dear Karin, not all of us live in the prosperous countries, (though all who replied above, obviously do) and I (an Agency, too), am not to blame, if clients in this country to an Agecy offers price you\'d die laughing if I\'ll tell you.
... See more
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 22:35, kadamczyk wrote:
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 21:52, uldis wrote:
and die from starvation. Dear Karin, not all of us live in the prosperous countries, (though all who replied above, obviously do) and I (an Agency, too), am not to blame, if clients in this country to an Agecy offers price you\'d die laughing if I\'ll tell you.
I know that things are different in other countries, but my comments are still valid. The rate I mentioned was an example for my country, but the same principle applies wherever you are. If a standard rate in your country is .03 [insert currency], will you accept 0.003 for a rush job?
I also know that many translators do not have the luxury of insisting on their rates, but as I mentioned in my later posting, if enough of us who can insist do, things are bound to change.
Take care,
Karin
Before I decided to go Freelance in January 2003 I made sure that I had enough savings to live for 6 months to 1 year without making any profit on my business. That way I was not in a position to feel \"pressure\" to accept rates like .06 or .07 per word (I live in France). In fact, I set my rates to reflect what I thought my work was worth and decided to systematically turn down anything less. The first couple of months were dismal, but I am finally building up a small base of regular customers who are satisfied with my work and willing to pay a bit more for it. I think that if you plan your switch to freelance work carefully, you CAN afford to maintain a certain standard, and in the end you will come out ahead. Believe me, in the long term, you really don\'t WANT to have a customer list made up of low-paying agencies. The time you spend working for peanuts is better spent promoting yourself to the RIGHT customers!
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| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:52
Flemish to English
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| Next year the Baltic States will be member of the E.U. | Apr 30, 2003 |
[quote]
On 2003-04-29 21:52, uldis wrote:
and die from starvation. Dear Karin, not all of us live in the prosperous countries, (though all who replied above, obviously do) and I (an Agency, too), am not to blame, if clients in this country to an Agecy offers price you\'d die laughing if I\'ll tell you. And the client, too, can\'t pay more, economy in any particular country is interconnected. None the less, our translators here generally are much better off than the population in general.
And about holydays and office hours- I dream about time when we\'ll be able to observe them. Not yet though, it\'s 0:49 AM here and I\'m still working- and not to by a new MB, but to make ends meet...
_________________
When your country will join the E.U. next year, prices are going to rise to the European level. If you keep asking your current rates how will you be able to survive? The rates will have to rise too, you will have no other option.
| | | | Brigith Guimarães
Portugal
Local time: 03:52
Member (2003)
English to Portuguese
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| I've learned a lot with you all people! | Apr 30, 2003 |
I am a recent member here and so far I only got one small translating job with no unusual consequences. But... the experience of you all tells me a lot of things. You know... I would most probably be tempted to accept the job for the imposed price, just for the sake of doing \"A\" job. WRONG! It is a good and serious piece of advice and, yes I do agree, all translators should fight against such people.
Good work and happy week-end!
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cbolton - I also charge a surcharge for Easter/Christmas/New Year\'s work (that is, if I am available and willing to work then at all). You were in the right!
MarcPrior - Will you be publishing your guidelines for TM projects? Sounds very interesting.
Also, I totally agree with Karin. However, I think there is an unspoken (unspeakable?) issue underlying the rate discussion - you have to be a good translator to command high rates. I know that there are, o... See more cbolton - I also charge a surcharge for Easter/Christmas/New Year\'s work (that is, if I am available and willing to work then at all). You were in the right!
MarcPrior - Will you be publishing your guidelines for TM projects? Sounds very interesting.
Also, I totally agree with Karin. However, I think there is an unspoken (unspeakable?) issue underlying the rate discussion - you have to be a good translator to command high rates. I know that there are, of course, circumstances in which lower rates are the norm (such as what Uldis described), but sometimes I think a lot of the complaining about low rates is hot air, and the complainers should take a look at a. their translation skills, b. their business skills.
OK, I said it - now I\'ll duck and wait to be stoned... ▲ Collapse
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| We are in business too! | May 1, 2003 |
I don\'t know of any other business which would consider giving a deep discount (effectively) just because a customer says, \"I will pay only $X for this product.\" Many times we are asked to accept rates that are 50% or less of our normal rates (which most times are more or less in line with the market for our country or combination).
It\'s time that freelancers started thinking of themselves as what they are -- microbusinesses. That means that we have to take responsibili... See more I don\'t know of any other business which would consider giving a deep discount (effectively) just because a customer says, \"I will pay only $X for this product.\" Many times we are asked to accept rates that are 50% or less of our normal rates (which most times are more or less in line with the market for our country or combination).
It\'s time that freelancers started thinking of themselves as what they are -- microbusinesses. That means that we have to take responsibility for our own marketing, setting of prices, quality control, and so on. If this eliminates people who are only in it to make a few bucks during a stint abroad, or whatever (no offense to any particular person, but we know there are people like that who are not professionals and have no intention of becoming one), so be it.
Aside from the invention of a really really good system of MT or CAT, there doesn\'t seem to be any way of reducing costs in translation aside from accumulating experience which reduces the time it takes to deal with a text. Since we can\'t reduce costs in any realistic way, which is the major way that businesses manage to offer lower prices, the only way to reduce prices would be to cut down on one\'s lifestyle. But other businesses would assume that salaries for employees must remain fixed and can\'t be reduced suddenly just to offer a discount -- otherwise they would lose their employees. I don\'t see where we should do less. Think of yourself as the most valued employee of your microbusiness, because that\'s what you are.
Personally, I enjoy telling potential clients who offer some ridiculous rate (especially Chinese>English), \"No problem. You know what my rate is, and you have my contact details. I\'ll be glad to do the job later if it is necessary. However, please do understand that I do not offer review services, if you decide to get a non-native English speaker to do this job for you.\" I can\'t count the number of times that potential clients have come back in the past wanting me to fix some utter disaster they\'ve been given having outsourced the translation to a much cheaper translator who was obviously not anything near a native speaker of English, so now I cut them off at the pass.
[ This Message was edited by: ironlady on 2003-05-01 01:21] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 04:52
German to English
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| Translation and business | May 1, 2003 |
Daina: I don\'t intend to publish anything by myself, and any results will depend upon whether I can win support within my professional association.
Regarding whether you have to be a good translator in order to command high rates: obviously, you must somehow persuade people that you are offering a quality service, and it\'s difficult to do that if you\'re not. But even inexperienced translators can enhance the quality of their work, by taking more time to be thorough, for e... See more Daina: I don\'t intend to publish anything by myself, and any results will depend upon whether I can win support within my professional association.
Regarding whether you have to be a good translator in order to command high rates: obviously, you must somehow persuade people that you are offering a quality service, and it\'s difficult to do that if you\'re not. But even inexperienced translators can enhance the quality of their work, by taking more time to be thorough, for example. That means earning less per day, but I see no alternative, at least as long as translators are determined (or forced by circumstance) to become freelances with relatively little experience.
I disagree, though, that Karin\'s original message was about high rates vs. low rates. I think she has made that clear enough. Terry Thatcher has also explained it very well. Whether you allow yourself to be dictated to by customers is quite a different issue to the rates you actually charge.
On the subject of cleaning up other people\'s mess, which Terry mentions: I read an interesting article in an auto magazine here in Germany recently. Auto manufacturers produce repair manuals for their mechanics (nowadays, often on CD, and the mechanic prints out the page he needs). The magazine wanted to find out whether car dealers would hand the instructions over to a car owners who wanted to do the work themselves. They were astonished to find that the dealers were quite happy to hand over the instructions. One reason was that it was good for customer relations. The main reason, though, was that the dealers thought owners would come back when they found they couldn\'t, in fact, manage to do the work themselvse. One dealer made the very astute comment that not only would they come back, but having seen the complexity of the tasks involved, they would REALLY appreciate why the garage prices were so high.
This is also true of translation. Here in Germany, a majority of people have seven or so years\'s schooling in English. A very large proportion are capable of producing a passable translation from English, perhaps even into English. At least as far as English is concerned, that means that a certain amount of translation which would be done by a translator in other countries or for other languages, is done by non-translators. But it also means that people are, generally speaking, much more conscious that it is a very complex task involving a good deal of skill - more conscious than in countries without such an emphasis on foreign-language learning, such as the UK.
They are, if you like - in general - better-educated customers.
Marc
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| | | | | Living in prosperous countries | May 1, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 21:52, uldis wrote:
and die from starvation. Dear Karin, not all of us live in the prosperous countries, (though all who replied above, obviously do) and I (an Agency, too), am not to blame, if clients in this country to an Agecy offers price you\'d die laughing if I\'ll tell you.
_________________
I understand clients in your own country might not be able to pay \"prosperous-coun
... See more Quote:
On 2003-04-29 21:52, uldis wrote:
and die from starvation. Dear Karin, not all of us live in the prosperous countries, (though all who replied above, obviously do) and I (an Agency, too), am not to blame, if clients in this country to an Agecy offers price you\'d die laughing if I\'ll tell you.
_________________
I understand clients in your own country might not be able to pay \"prosperous-country\" rates, but many of those of us living in these countries are suffering the drain of work to these countries where rates are so much lower - the Internet is a double-edged sword. I have suggested before, as have others, that a fairer solution for all is tailoring rates to the client\'s country of origin, not the translator\'s.
And yes, Jane, great idea! (no suggestion to put forward as yet)
[ This Message was edited by: uldis on 2003-04-29 21:54]
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Quote: Daina wrote:
.. you have to be a good translator to command high rates ..
.. and the complainers should take a look at a) their translation skills, b) their business skills...
.. OK, I said it - now I\'ll duck and wait to be stoned ..
You say translators should adjust their rates according to their skills and achieved quality. I agree, but let\'s take a look at the other parti... See more Quote: Daina wrote:
.. you have to be a good translator to command high rates ..
.. and the complainers should take a look at a) their translation skills, b) their business skills...
.. OK, I said it - now I\'ll duck and wait to be stoned ..
You say translators should adjust their rates according to their skills and achieved quality. I agree, but let\'s take a look at the other participants:
- reviewers
- project managers
- brokers
- end clients
Let\'s apply the same criterion to their activities:
- Have you ever met a reviewer lowering his demand
because of wrong or useless \"corrections\"?
- H.y.e.m. a project manager l.h.d.
because of negligent project planning and administration?
- H.y.e.m. a broker l.h.d.
because he did not find the optimal people?
- H.y.e.m. an end client l.h.d.
because he did not provide the material as proper as it should be?
I think that the modesty of translators should correspond to the standards of the other participants. 
[ This Message was edited by: Harry_B on 2003-05-01 12:36] ▲ Collapse
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| That's not what I meant | May 1, 2003 |
Quote:
On 2003-05-01 12:33, Harry_B wrote:
Quote: Daina wrote:
.. you have to be a good translator to command high rates ..
.. and the complainers should take a look at a) their translation skills, b) their business skills...
.. OK, I said it - now I\'ll duck and wait to be stoned ..
You say translators should adjust th
... See more Quote:
On 2003-05-01 12:33, Harry_B wrote:
Quote: Daina wrote:
.. you have to be a good translator to command high rates ..
.. and the complainers should take a look at a) their translation skills, b) their business skills...
.. OK, I said it - now I\'ll duck and wait to be stoned ..
You say translators should adjust their rates according to their skills and achieved quality. I agree, but let\'s take a look at the other participants:
[ This Message was edited by: Harry_B on 2003-05-01 12:36]
Actually, I am not saying that they \"should\" adjust their rates for different levels of quality. The quality should always be good. I think the dynamic sometimes is that if you don\'t provide the high quality needed, the customers just don\'t come back - and they might not tell you why. And then people have to search around for someone who will give them work, possibly only at low rates.
And Marc, although Karin\'s post was about standing your ground (I agree), the title of it was \"insist on the rates you want\" (high ones!), and she started out by mentioning that there is always talk of pressure to accept low rates.
I just think that quality (whether that means delivering excellent translations or having enough business skills to provide the service that is needed) does play a part here, not just economic conditions or other factors. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 05:52
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| Believe me, we will | May 1, 2003 |
rise prices when there will be clients who will be able to pay. We also hope that with the EU things will change for the better, I don\'t believe you actually think we like to work for cheap just in order to bich the Westerners..
Uldis
And just a quote:
\"\"What some people mistake for the high cost of living is really
the cost of high living.\" --Doug Larson
... See more rise prices when there will be clients who will be able to pay. We also hope that with the EU things will change for the better, I don\'t believe you actually think we like to work for cheap just in order to bich the Westerners..
Uldis
And just a quote:
\"\"What some people mistake for the high cost of living is really
the cost of high living.\" --Doug Larson
Quote:
When your country will join the E.U. next year, prices are going to rise to the European level. If you keep asking your current rates how will you be able to survive? The rates will have to rise too, you will have no other option.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: uldis on 2003-05-02 10:05] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Here is one phrase for your consideration | May 2, 2003 |
I base my phrase on what I have observed on the part of stingy clients. They want to get the best possible service but would like to pay only peanuts. I have already told many of them the phrase being proposed here. Here it is:
\"If you want to pay peanuts, you can get only monkeys!\"
Greetings to my fellow translators.
N.Raghavan
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 14:50, nonogogo wr
... See more I base my phrase on what I have observed on the part of stingy clients. They want to get the best possible service but would like to pay only peanuts. I have already told many of them the phrase being proposed here. Here it is:
\"If you want to pay peanuts, you can get only monkeys!\"
Greetings to my fellow translators.
N.Raghavan
Quote:
On 2003-04-29 14:50, nonogogo wrote:
I completely agree with Karin.
It suddenly occurred to me that we translators could invent a stock phrase to put in any email, or say to people on the phone, that shows we all have a similar opinion on this. If we could get this \"phrase\" sentence to circulate around the world, by posting it and repeating it over and over, this would begin to perhaps sink in.
I suggest we have a contest to come up with a phrase and then volunteers would fan out across the translation sites on the internet spreading the phrase or sentence. We could copyright it as a group and put a copyright \"C\" after it. This idea would work as a \"voluntary\" self-regulation by translators. What are others thoughts on this idea?
So, I hereby launch the contest to come up with a sentence or phrase that would aptly state that transalation is a profession and as such commands professional fees.
I volunteer to collect the phrases and then post them for a vote by whoever would like to vote.
cheers
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