Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term or phrase:
gentili / egregi
English translation:
A Kind Sir becomes a Dear Sir,
Added to glossary by
lizzy g
Oct 25, 2006 10:34
18 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Italian term
gentili / egregi
Italian to English
Art/Literary
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Context: advice on writing letters, cautioning would-be writers to avoid angry tones.
Se stai per esplodere di rabbia, non cerchi il dialogo:ti lanci sulla tastiera per dirgliene quattro.
I signori da gentili diventano egregi; i saluti da cordiali, &distinti; e non sei a disposizione per nessun chiarimento.
Clearly, 'gentili' and 'egregi' can both be translated as 'dear'. However, I need to distinguish between them and think I need 'egregi' to sound more icy.
Any bright ideas?!
Se stai per esplodere di rabbia, non cerchi il dialogo:ti lanci sulla tastiera per dirgliene quattro.
I signori da gentili diventano egregi; i saluti da cordiali, &distinti; e non sei a disposizione per nessun chiarimento.
Clearly, 'gentili' and 'egregi' can both be translated as 'dear'. However, I need to distinguish between them and think I need 'egregi' to sound more icy.
Any bright ideas?!
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+9
8 mins
Jo Macdonald
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Spain
An expectation of excellence
Native in: English 
Works in: Italian to English, Spanish to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
27
Selected
A Kind Sir becomes a Dear Sir,
or
A Kind Sir becomes a DEAR SIR,
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Note added at 12 mins (2006-10-25 10:47:28 GMT)
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Your Kind Sir, is an affable bloke whose reply you can’t wait to receive, whilst your Dear Sir, is the one whose ear you’re about to rip to shreds with a hail of abuse.
The first is friendly and warm, the second - formal and cold.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you for this answer, Jo!"
+1
1 min
Loretta Bertoli
Native in Italian
Native in: Italian 
Works in: Italian to English, Italian to French, French to Italian, and 1 more.
dear?
secondo me potrebbe andare bene dear ...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Debora Villa
: Dear Dir/Madam
2 mins
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grazie debora!
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| agree |
Caterina Passari
: sì,Dear,Sir,Madam...
11 mins
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grazie caterina
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| neutral |
Angela Arnone
: I think Lizzie wants an alternative to "dear"
21 mins
|
| disagree |
M-A-Z
: Concordo con Angela Arnone
1 hr
|
+5
19 mins
Dear Mr./Dear Sir
from Dear Mr. to Dear Sir
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lesley Burgon
: it's icy and gets the point across to me :-)
30 mins
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thanks, Lesley
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| disagree |
M-A-Z
: "Sir" also conveys a tone of politeness, which is not intended here
47 mins
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on the contrary - I think the intent is to remain polite but convey a note of iciness and formality
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| agree |
Anna Strowe
: This sounds the most natural to me. Some of the other ideas are just too far from standard English, and seem less cold and formal, and more convoluted. Replacing the name with "Sir", replaces the personal with the formal. Edit: American English.
1 hr
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thanks, Anna - my thoughts exactly
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| agree |
maryrose
: Yes, we're talking about a concept to convey a change in tone - "Dear Mr Smith" becomes "Dear Sir" - not a literal application of the terms.
1 hr
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Cheers, Maryrose!
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| agree |
Costanza T.
3 hrs
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thanks Costanza!
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| agree |
Maudarg (X)
: Agree with Anna
4 hrs
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thanks, Maureen
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| agree |
Peter Cox
12 hrs
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thanks, Peter
|
20 mins
Umberto Cassano
Italy
Italy
Native in Italian
Works in field
Italy
Translating and teaching with skill
Native in: Italian
Works in: English to Italian, Italian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
Dear / Illustrious
As you say " 'gentili' and 'egregi' can both be translated as 'dear'". That's right! However "egregio" seems to be more formal than "gentile".
MAYBE in this case you should focus more on their actual meaning than on their actual use in letter-writing opening formulas... (it's just an idea).
MAYBE in this case you should focus more on their actual meaning than on their actual use in letter-writing opening formulas... (it's just an idea).
+3
10 mins
Angela Arnone
Native in English
Works in field
Italian by name ... English by nature!
Native in: English
Works in: Italian to English, English, Italian
Related KudoZ points
:
43
dear/esteemed
I think if I were ever to do such a thing, lungi da me, as write a nasty e-mail with an icy greeting, I might opt for the Dickensian "esteemed" ...
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Note added at 24 mins (2006-10-25 10:59:17 GMT)
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You might even not greet ... just a short, sharp "Sir," or "Madam,"
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Note added at 24 mins (2006-10-25 10:59:17 GMT)
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You might even not greet ... just a short, sharp "Sir," or "Madam,"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Mara Ballarini
: sì, una possibile differenziazione :-)
7 mins
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| agree |
Katharine Prucha
: my sentiments exactly!
9 mins
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| agree |
Alfredo Tutino
: to be reminded of Dickens is always good - in Lizzie's text one might say something like " 'a 'Sir' is no longer 'dear' "... And of course I can't think of a single instance where you'd write icy greetings and nasty e-mails... :-)
27 mins
|
-1
8 mins
Angelo Berbotto
Australia
Australia
Works in field
Australia
A lawyer for your legal translations
Native in: Spanish (Variants: Uruguayan, Standard-Spain, Canarian, Argentine, Rioplatense)
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, Italian to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
to the kind attention of ----> to the attention of
Hi Lizzy,
in some faxes I have seen the formula: to the kind attention of X
a functional equivalent of gentili / egregi
could be to use
to the kind attention of and simply to the attention of X to convey the difference in politeness...
just an idea
cheers
Angelo
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Note added at 33 minutos (2006-10-25 11:08:14 GMT)
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another option could be:
Dear Mr X ---> Mr X (plain)
in some faxes I have seen the formula: to the kind attention of X
a functional equivalent of gentili / egregi
could be to use
to the kind attention of and simply to the attention of X to convey the difference in politeness...
just an idea
cheers
Angelo
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 minutos (2006-10-25 11:08:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
another option could be:
Dear Mr X ---> Mr X (plain)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Caterina Passari
: scusa ma...l'espressione in questione non traduce "gentili" ,é un sottoporre un qualcosa all'attenzione di XXX...ciao
5 mins
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what you need here is a functional equivalent because a literal equivalent is not possible: it is possible to say to the attention of Mr X and to the kind attention of Mr X whereas any expression other than Dear sounds odd in business correspondance - AB
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| disagree |
M-A-Z
: I agree with you on the functional approach, but the English expression needs to be smooth and easy to read. Your suggestions seem rather clumpsy to me.
1 hr
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your comments are noted
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